Child free people being told they deserve less yet being expected to do more!

[JenniferBooth]

Has anyone on here experienced any of this?

1. Employment..........being expected to work the Christmas shifts (because the parents want the time off) even though you did it the previous year or the last few years..
2. Family Being expected to take on the care of a child even though you have chosen not to have your own because of emotionally charged comments like " i feel sorry for the child cos none of his family members want him"
3. Housing. particularly social housing, where if you dont have children you are only entitled to a small flat or a bedsit, and God forbid if you happen to live in a bigger place you are told that it is your moral duty to downsize for families.
4. Being asked at a job interview if you have children and then being asked "why? Dont you like responsibility" when you say no. Happened to me back in 2004

I am not struggling to understand your point.

I understand your point exactly. Which is why I quoted your exact words.

You just want to ignore the fact that you castigated the OP in an incredibly personal offensive way

And came of the childfree board to lecture childfree people on how much easier their lives are.

Yes of course. I didn't say they have zero responsibility or anything to do.

But having no children will give you more freedom than having one child will. Having one child will give you more freedom than having two children will. Having two children will give you more freedom than having three. Its just a fact. Its like saying if you have a pet, you have more to do than someone without a pet....if all other things are equal. Its not offensive. Its factual

Didn't take long for the 'parents have it so much harder' to start, did it? and people wonder why we wanted this board. Futile, as it turned out.

I wonder if people go onto Black Mumsnetters and lecture them about what they should do about racism and discrimination and worse maternity outcomes? I bet they don't.

Unfortunately they do, black MNs are constantly having to remind posters that that area is for black posters and they have to deal with racist posts on there

Unfortunately some people are cunts and think their opinion is always the most important one and they must force their way into every situation to make sure everybody hears that opinion.

Im not saying it's necessarily harder but if the op wanted a better property then it was up to her to achieve that. Not having children would have given her more freedom in terms of career than having them. The state has done the bare minimum of putting a roof over her head. That's the point of social housing. You want more, you provide it for yourself.

People with disabilities should be adequately housed though.

Although I don't think it's related to OP being childfree. If she had children, they still wouldn't be housed somewhere that took disabilities into account properly and her DH might still be on the sofa, just in a two bedroom house (with children in the other bedroom).

I agree with you that social housing simply can't give more than people need, but need isn't just about how many people there are.

Nowadays single people or couples will be pretty unlikely to get any kind of social housing. I can see why it does seem unfair that they won't house a single woman but if you have a baby, suddenly you'll get a flat. But, it's not a reward for having a child, it's because a child needs a home and a child can't live alone

How is this relevant to a thread on the childfree board

We know children have needs

We aren't here to talk about children's needs or parents responsibilities despite constant attempts by some posters to turn this thread back to the needs of parents continuously

Unfortunately some people are cunts and think their opinion is always the most important one and they must force their way into every situation to make sure everybody hears that opinion

I don't know why I'm surprised, TBH. I suspect that a lot of people see being childfree as something we're getting away with and want to remind us that we have to pay for our privilege.

I wouldn't be brave enough to lecture BMN. That takes some brass neck.

Everyone needs a home. What you mean is that a child is unable to provide themselves with one.

So it might be with a disabled person.

Yet curiously you’ll berate a disabled adult for not working harder to provide themselves with a home, but a parent should just be given one, because the child needs it. No berating - it’s just accepted that parent can’t do anything to help.

Disabled adults can be vulnerable and dependent in precisely the same way as kids, but nobody gives a shit about that in this country. It drives me mad.

How am I desperately trying to come across as a victim?

How am I a victim?

How have I called myself a victim?

Why are you assuming that childfree people trying to only talk amoungst themselves are desperate to be victims?

(For the record I believe that social housing should be a lot more extensive for parents, childless people, disabled people and more. The difference here is that I don’t go on threads where parents are looking for social housing advice and berate them for not working harder.)

Why don't you just have the grace to go, Oh, hahaha, yes, I got the wrong end of the stick... (and it appears I may have beaten the OP with it)... I see now this is the childfree mumsnetters' board, and as I have children, I'll see myself out.

What a suprise after all the fuss on the proposal thread for this board that what it hasn't attracted is the incels and antinatalists, but instead parents telling us we are childfreeing wrong

Who would have thought it🤦‍♀️

I agree with a pp in regards to housing for disabled adults and I bet if the op had started a thread about her housing situation in relation to her dh disabilities she'd have got a much more sympathetic response. As it is, she has linked her small, sweatbox flat as she describes it to her childfree status.

How is this relevant to a thread on the childfree board

We know children have needs

We aren't here to talk about children's needs or parents responsibilities despite constant attempts by some posters to turn this thread back to the needs of parents continuously

But OP's complaint was that "if you dont have children you are only entitled to a small flat or a bedsit". Other posters on this thread without children have said this complaint isn't reasonable, and have given the needs of children as a reason. When talking about social housing and how it's allocated (which was part of the subject of the OP), you can't say "we aren't going to talk about the needs of X group" because the people doing the allocating have to consider all the needs and therefore the needs of that group are relevant.

Of course OP's husband's disabilities should be taken into account when being housed. But the fact they haven't been isn't an example of discrimination against those without children, but against those with disabilities.

I know! Who'da thunk it. Like there's not thousands of threads to talk about being parents.

There’s a difference between pointing out that it’s unreasonable, and castigating a person for not working harder and then justifying that by starting a game of “who has an harder life? guess what it’s always parents!”

That’s why the previous 10 pages of people pointing out that it’s unreasonable have generally been unremarked upon, whereas now there’s a bun fight.

A childfree person has more freedom...I mean that's one of the perks surely?

Perks? A perk is a benefit that comes with a job. Women who chose not to have children don't have "perks". What a stupid comment.

Actually that wasn't the OPs whole complaint

What the OP also said was how people without children who live in bigger properties are treated as morally wrong if they don't downsize to smaller properties

She also repeated this further on in the thread

She is using her circumstances to illustrate her point. Other posters who rent or own their houses have used their circumstances to illustrate their point.

I have been told more than once in real life and on MN that I am selfish for owning a "family sized" home and that as a childless couple we are keeping a home from a "real family" who needs it.

My house was on the market for four years before I bought it. I know families who went to view it and didn't buy it because it wasn't safe for children to live in. I'm actually restoring a house so that it will be suitable in the future. But still I'm selfish.

This is also the thing the OP was talking about. But some posters have zeroed in on the social housing bit and decided to call her selfish instead of looking at the wider point she is making that people without children are expected to live in small properties and judged if they don't.

That's why the needs of children and parents aren't necessarily relevant. Because if you look at the OPs wider point instead of just half of her original point its actually a very different conversation.

Do I think couples without children should be allocated 3 bedroom social housing - no
Do I think people in social housing should be able to complain its not fit for purpose - yes
Do I think people without children but with disabilities need their needs taken into account rather than number of bodies in a house - yes

Do i think people who are allocated pokey social housing should be able to come and complain about it, even though its the only thing they are entitled to without be berated for not working hard enough - absolutely

There is far too much of a culture of villifying people who claim benefits, live in social housing etc. And that extends to them not being able to have a gentle moan about it on social media without people having a go at them.

The OP isn't actually demanding in real life that she gets a bigger flat and a family with children goes without. So im not sure why people are acting like she is. She just wanted a moan. Shes human. MN wouldnt exist if people didnt like an occasional moan about things they wouldnt actually do anything about in real life.

@Catchasingmewithspiders Great post.

My point by the way of my above post is why it is spectacularly tone deaf to come on a thread like this and tell a childfree person they should have just worked harder and bought or rented a bigger place. It misses the actual point of the OP by many many miles.

Well instead of that word how about advantage. I mean every single decision we take in life no matter how big or small has advantages and disadvantages.

Ah yes my baby being born dead and not alive has always been such an advantage in life. A real perk 🤦‍♀️