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MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Child free people being told they deserve less yet being expected to do more!

327 replies

JenniferBooth · 11/06/2023 18:03

Has anyone on here experienced any of this?

  1. Employment..........being expected to work the Christmas shifts (because the parents want the time off) even though you did it the previous year or the last few years..
  2. Family Being expected to take on the care of a child even though you have chosen not to have your own because of emotionally charged comments like " i feel sorry for the child cos none of his family members want him"
  3. Housing. particularly social housing, where if you dont have children you are only entitled to a small flat or a bedsit, and God forbid if you happen to live in a bigger place you are told that it is your moral duty to downsize for families.
  4. Being asked at a job interview if you have children and then being asked "why? Dont you like responsibility" when you say no. Happened to me back in 2004
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Florissante · 17/06/2023 09:34

Having a banner wouldn't work because there would still be two types of posters. Those who (1) see that the topic is trending and post, not paying attention to the board name (2) hate the idea of this board and want to crap all over its threads.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 17/06/2023 10:42

I think at the end of the day there are many posters who feel that we just need to have parenting explained to us and then we’ll understand and be happy to be treated unequally at work or wherever.

You’ll never be able to stop them from posting here because they know where they are and they truly believe they’re doing the right thing.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 17/06/2023 13:32

And we’ll never know real love until, etc, etc.

JenniferBooth · 18/06/2023 00:13

@Catchasingmewithspiders if i was a like button for your posts i would use it. Im so sorry to hear that you lost a child Flowers

This thread has had a lot of posts on it while i was away for my fiftieth. I didnt have internet access during that time.

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JenniferBooth · 18/06/2023 00:26

So you've been with your husband for over thirty years, no children and you haven't managed to both earn enough to claw your way out of your social housing flat and either rent somewhere bigger privately or buy somewhere. This is utterly ridiculous. Take some personal responsibility for heaven's sake

Why am i getting deja vu. oh yes I know why. Its because the Government did a similar thing recently. Moaned about the fact that not enough women are having children after spending decades telling us not to have kids we cant afford.
So in fact i thought i was ALREADY taking personal responsibility but apparently not.

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SideWonder · 30/06/2023 19:44

Social housing should be reserved for families when there is a shortage. A single person in a three bed house with garden vs a family of four in a two bed flat makes no sense to me.

What about those people who had a family in social housing but the DC have all grown up & moved away? By this principle, they should be moved to one bedroom flats. But I can't see Housing Associations & Councils doing this.

Catsmere · 30/06/2023 23:06

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 11/06/2023 18:55

  1. Sounds like a shit employer. Open for Christmas? Everyone takes a turn
  1. Has this actually happened to you? No one should feel obliged to take on a child. Tell whoever is criticising you that they can take the child.
  1. If you want state subsidised housing then you best only be taking what you need. Family or not.
  1. Illegal surely??

Just what I was thinking. Granted the laws in Australia might be different, but nobody has ever asked me such a thing at an interview. That's definitely illegal.

I was usually happy to work public holidays (everywhere closed at Christmas) because it meant extra pay and not being at home near the feral neighbours.

JenniferBooth · 31/07/2023 12:06

https://twitter.com/Anxybansh/status/1685007055332020224?s=20

@HelloSanctuary once again rejected by you, even though I have lived where I live for 30 years, work in the same place and can't afford private rent. But yet again, because we don't have a kid, you refuse to house us. Even though there's been an empty 1 bed flat here for a year.

AnxiousBanshee@Anxybansh
·
Jul 28Why am I singled out because I don't have kids? Why is there an empty flat with no one living in it? So disgusted in Canterbury Council and sanctuary housing.
Absolute sham.

https://twitter.com/Anxybansh/status/1685007055332020224?s=20

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CleverLilViper · 01/08/2023 11:38

A lot of these issues would be fixed if people would stop making assumptions about people who don't have kids. We've seen it multiple times by posters on this very thread who just can't wrap their heads around the idea that our lives aren't necessarily easier without kids.

  1. If a company requires Christmas working, it should be done on a rota basis. If one person worked it one year, they don't have to the next and round it goes again so everyone has to do their share regardless of if they have kids or not. Entitled parents who want to whine about the system and declare that "their kids need mummy/daddy home for Christmas magic" should be reminded that they took and accepted a job which requires them to work some Christmases and they will just have to suck it up, buttercup.

I've luckily never worked in a place that required Christmas working (and I would deliberately avoid all as I love Christmas and not giving that up for nothing). But, I've had a friend who when she was 18 worked in a care home. She was asked by a colleague who had children if she would work the Christmas Day and the colleague would work New Year for her so she could go out and party. At the time, my friend was more interested in going out and getting drunk on NYE so happily switched.

When it came to NY, the colleague called in "sick" and my friend was forced to work that one as well. It happened following year as well and my friend being young, didn't know how to fully say no and assert herself.

  1. There is the assumption that if you don't have kids of your own, you have the free time and capability of taking care of other children in the family. No one ever really questions why a person doesn't have children or if they're the most suitable person for that child to be with.

  2. Again, there's been the assumption on this thread that if you're living in social housing, no kids, you've had all the time and opportunity in the world to make as much money as possible. Not taking into account the possibility that you could have other circumstances which may hinder and limit earning potential. We've seen it countless times in this thread alone where people have assumed that the OP has the ability to simply privately rent or buy her own property but is choosing not to. Never taking into account the fact that she may have circumstances that prevent her from doing so.

I forgot, though, if you don't have kids, your life is easy-peasy lemon-squeezy and you should be able to do anything you want as kids are the only obstacle and issue people face.

  1. Disgusting thing to say in an interview and possibly illegal now too.

I think what it all boils down to at the crux of all this is: "without children, you're not full people and you don't live full lives. Therefore, you must have plenty of free time to offer up to the parents so they can have all the annual leave and allowances in the workplace. Not only must you have all that free time, but you must want to hand it over to your colleagues who have kids so they can just have an easier time of it. Don't you know how hard it is being a parent?"

That is not me saying that being a parent is easy. I know it's not-but that doesn't mean that your CF colleagues are there for you to take advantage of and don't have other shit going on in their own lives. It also doesn't mean that they don't want to have prime holiday time off too, sometimes.

SquashPenguin · 01/08/2023 11:47

The parents always get their Xmas leave requests in on 1st Jan. Does my head in. God forbid anyone else want it off.

I was questioned multiple times why we bought our house. We can’t have kids despite lots of ivf, but everyone wants to weigh in with their opinion on our house. If I want five bedrooms I’ll fucking buy five bedrooms! I can afford it. The dog’s got his own room. Doesn’t sleep in it but it’s a nice concept 🤣

HunterHearstHelmsley · 01/08/2023 11:53

SquashPenguin · 01/08/2023 11:47

The parents always get their Xmas leave requests in on 1st Jan. Does my head in. God forbid anyone else want it off.

I was questioned multiple times why we bought our house. We can’t have kids despite lots of ivf, but everyone wants to weigh in with their opinion on our house. If I want five bedrooms I’ll fucking buy five bedrooms! I can afford it. The dog’s got his own room. Doesn’t sleep in it but it’s a nice concept 🤣

They can get their requests in whenever they like... They're still not getting looked at until September, along with everyone else's.

Funny... whenever auto corrected to Ebenezer 🤣

fitzwilliamdarcy · 01/08/2023 11:55

Couldn't have put it better myself @CleverLilViper.

I've done the last 7 Christmases and I'm putting my foot down this year. It's causing absolute ructions but I really don't care. I've done my flaming bit.

JenniferBooth · 01/08/2023 14:09

@CleverLilViper What happened to your friend re. care home is disgusting and is the reason i wouldnt swap shifts with anyone when i worked my night job. I didnt trust them not to renege on it. So just stuck to my own shifts

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LoobyDop · 01/08/2023 19:29

Love the dog having his own room! We have four bedrooms- one each, a dressing room for me and a study for him. My study is on the landing- I need more space to dress than I do to think.

coeurnoir · 02/08/2023 21:56

I forgot, though, if you don't have kids, your life is easy-peasy lemon-squeezy and you should be able to do anything you want as kids are the only obstacle and issue people face

I think that in a lot of cases, myself included, that we (parents) somehow think that it is always our children holding us back from the freedom to do what we want, the success in our careers, the exotic holidays and adventures that in our fantasy world we would do...if only we didn't have children.

The truth is, that our lives would have been similar. We would have got older ans less inclined to party. We would acquire responsibilities in the form of work and family and we would have all the do,eating shit to deal with as well.

The notion of the "family" is a fantasy. My own is blended and includes my children's step father, biological father, two of his ex partners who my children stay in touch with ans love and my husbands step children. It's messy, it's loving, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it's fab. What it is not, is more superior than my childfree sisters family of her, her husband and their myriad of animals.

HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo · 04/08/2023 01:17

I really do find it incredible that childfree parents are forced to schedule our holidays around other people's lifestyle choices (holidays are only sensibly priced in term time) and are also expected to give up our Christmas days.

My lifestyle choice of having dogs instead of children? According to AIBU dogs are just generally awful and shouldn't be allowed out in society in case the DC are scared/allergic/inconvenienced. Roll on the childfree parks with dog agility equipment, good coffee and no one whining about trauma when a greyhound catches a squirrel.

1967buglet · 08/08/2023 10:29

When I was still teaching uni, I was asked to teach early in the morning and late at night to accommodate parents. I did this for a number of years, but then I asked not to teach after 5 as my elderly mum-in-law needed me to pop in after work to see how she was and help her with dinner. I’ll just say that the response I received was not pleasant. They allowed this accommodation, but it was very grudging with heavy implications I was selfish to ask. I ignored it and got my mum in law her dinner.

Dh and I live in a four bed with some land. We bought it cheap in a v. rural area and spent a decade fixing it up to make it nice for ourselves, and sacrificed quite a bit to pay off the mortgage and do the DIY. After a lot of sweat equity on our part, it looks beautiful now. I don’t feel guilty owning my home. I don’t feel guilty working very part time and quasi-retiring early after putting off a lot of fun things in my life and painting walls, and stripping floors and furniture on the weekends. I ignore people who say we are selfish to have ‘all this room’. We all make our life choices.

My brother did think because he had kids and I didn’t, I didn’t deserve my inheritance from my father and spent several years trying to prevent me from having it, but when it was time for him to sell my dad’s land, the probate court thought otherwise, and I received my share. I was told I was selfish, etc., and he tried to impose a bunch of administration fees. Again the court said otherwise. I just ignored his protestations, esp because he always made much more money than me, lives in a nicer house, had expensive holidays, etc and thus treated me as a lesser being to be pitied and who didn’t deserve anything good. He conveniently forgot that I helped raise him and basically ran the house because my mum was ill throughout my childhood. My dad wanted to recognise that in giving us equal share even though I didn’t have kids.

He’s now upset he has to work till he is 65, and I have quasi retired in my 50s. I told him that he’ll have the pleasure of grandkids, he’s had the pleasure of 50K cars and a McMansion all these years, and I made the choice instead of a fixer upper, no car, and no children, and saving my money. Now I have a nice house, money in the bank and a decent pension and my leisure. I’ve had to save more money because I won’t have kids to look after me when I get old, and I just took a little longer to prosper because I was in grad school for a long time for my chosen line of work. Slow and steady. We all make our life choices.

People can fight each other over whether they have kids or not. Neither state of being is better than the other. They each have their own costs and benefits. They are just life choices. Isn’t it wonderful that women now have this choice to decide if they wish to parent or no?

JenniferBooth · 06/09/2023 13:11

And last night i got told on a thread that we need to axe housing benefit for older pensioner social housing tenants to pay for the fix of the RAAC concrete problem in schools.

yep thats right despite the fact that social housing is very likely to be facing the same problem. I posted on the school concrete thread in good faith because its a concerning subject. and yet again it was a big Fuck You.

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 06/09/2023 13:17

And last night i got told on a thread that we need to axe housing benefit for older pensioner social housing tenants to pay for the fix of the RAAC concrete problem in schools

There are long threads on the site board about the endemic ageism on this site (have I seen you there @JenniferBooth ?) and it's a sign of how engrained it is that the reaction is straightaway penalise the elderly to solve a problem caused by govt and industry (a problem that's been known about for years). I'm child free and 69 and this place is really starting to depress me with the attacks and that nothing is done about them.

JenniferBooth · 06/09/2023 13:30

I will check out Site Stuff. thanks Flowers Oh then i got told it was peoples poor decision to stay in a raac building. Like a tenant of limited mobility can just bunk down in a sports hall (Camden Council and Georgia Gould post Grenfell) or live in some run down hotel or druggie hostel. And you just know the same posters were perfectly happy for us to lock down in them. Anyone having a RAAC panic three years ago would have been called a conspiracy theorist

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JenniferBooth · 12/11/2023 20:40

This thread here proves point 3 beautifully.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4939417-what-does-a-62-year-old-man-on-just-above-minimum-wage-do-when-served-with-section-21-eviction-notice-and-cannot-afford-anything-on-the-current-rental-market?page=1

What does a 62 year old man on just above minimum wage do when served with section 21 eviction notice and cannot afford anything on the current rental market? | Mumsnet

I have a friend aged 62 who has been living in a pretty awful but liveable one bed flat for six years. He works full time in a call centre on little m...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4939417-what-does-a-62-year-old-man-on-just-above-minimum-wage-do-when-served-with-section-21-eviction-notice-and-cannot-afford-anything-on-the-current-rental-market?page=1

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betterangels · 14/11/2023 11:10

icelolly12 · 12/06/2023 07:47

The one that gets me is that council tax discount for single people is 25%.. .

Plus all these COL payments that most people with kids are entitled to, plus pensioners, plus people on benefits... just working single people who are left to suffer then

It was this for me when I was in the UK. And the expectation to work during Christmas.

JenniferBooth · 14/11/2023 19:47

She does know him, but she's not experienced in all the different variations of "shared housing", some of which might indeed be suitable for his specific needs with a small amount of compromise (eg giving up white goods

Thats the latest on the thread about the 62 year old man facing homelessness. It wouldnt be expected of someone with kids.

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