'Woman face' and calming 'Karen' a slur get my back up

[NippyWoowoo]

Am I alone in this? Popular amongst FWR on Mumsnet: talking about what a slur Karen is and stating that drag is offensive as it's 'woman face'.

As a black woman it feels so wrong to me, 'black face' is offensive and harmful, n*er is a slur and harmful. They are both things that have directly been used in the continual dehumanisation and oppression of black people and in perpetuating negative harmful stereotypes that, to this day, negatively affect black people.

Yes women as a sex are oppressed, but it isn't being called 'Karen' that's doing it, nor is is a drag dance-off don't even get me started on the fact that the definition is a Karen is so far removed on here from its actual meaning. WW in this country still have it much easier than ethnic minorities, and quite frankly whenever I see these terms in conversations it makes me realise how far apart our worlds are, and that they have probably never actually experienced discrimination in their life. And no, being called a TERF on Twitter is not comparable either.

I defend your right to be offended but not your right to decide what others do or do not find offensive as it relates to them.

@MindTheGapMoveAlong

I defend your right to be offended but not your right to decide what others do or do not find offensive as it relates to them.

Again, nobody has said this but as per usual, it suits your narrative to claim this 🙄

MN think they have done us a favour giving us this board, but they do nothing to support us on it or manage the abuse and bullying we receive on it. WW invade it and the black OP gets comments deleted.
It's disgusting.

I do not believe MN has any black mods, the amount of posts that are left standing, with the racism within them, as plain as day to see, if you are a POC. I am happy to be corrected, if I am wrong.

@Mookie81

MN think they have done us a favour giving us this board, but they do nothing to support us on it or manage the abuse and bullying we receive on it. WW invade it and the black OP gets comments deleted. It's disgusting.

I agree so much with this. It’s like they’ve given us this board which I’m grateful for. However there is no support whatsoever…

Racist white women.. Let's be clear who they are, without the misogyny.

This.

Older WW.

The day I began to really realise what racism really is was in the late 70s. We were at school in Birmingham, studying 'To Kill A Mockingbird' for O level and having a class discussion about it. A nice girl I'd known since infants recounted the story of how her 2 older brothers were picked up by the police (under sus). It was a Sunday morning and they were walking back from church in their suits, with their Bibles under their arms. We all knew, everyone in that class, that there was only one possible reason they had been stopped.

That was the day when I realised that I can never fully understand the lived experience of being black in a society that is still racist. We have no right to tell black people, black women, what they should think/feel/believe and what they should say and do.

Some of the comments on this thread have made me utterly cringe, because any comparison of 'Karen' as an insult to middle aged women and the n word, and blackface and 'womanface' is specious, minimising and insulting of the weight of history behind the original terms.

I honestly think that there is a current in society that is more bothered about being seen as 'not racist' than they are about not being racist. We should talk less and listen more.

Apologies for length of this and any intrusion.

The op told people to f u c k off in the deleted post.

@flashbac

The op told people to f u c k off in the deleted post.

Person. Singular.

Stop exaggerating 🙄

@flashbac

The op told people to f u c k off in the deleted post.

In the context of this thread, and as it was HER thread, I'm ok with that tbh.

I agree OP.
Read the whole thread, and find it depressing that people STILL aren't listening and are saying why you're wrong, that Karen is a slur, etc
Nothing's really changed since this board first got set up, has it?!

If you think you're justified becoming prejudiced against all white women because white women have treated you like crap then I get why. I just don't agree with you.
Eh? I've read the whole thread. No'ones saying that for crying out loud.

Actually I’ve seen the n word defended on here as not racist so even that isn’t enough for some on here. Unsurprisingly.

Let me roll up my sleeves.

What actually riles me the most about the notion that Karen is ageist and misogynist is firstly that it's another word akin to 'woke' that has been co-opted and now no longer means what it actually once did.
So if you are in support of this misogynist term 'Karen' then you too must be anti-feminist because how else can we explain it!

The fact remains the co-option of these words is very intentional. If you don't have the language to express your oppression then you cannot be oppressed because you don't have the language to express what you are experiencing. This is intentional.

Secondly of MRK. White liberals co-opt his speeches in the most bizarre ways! He basically said white liberals, so called 'allies' are actually the worst kind of people.

On on my final note. Why is it we go round and round in circles debating the term 'Karen' instead of actually looking at the ways in which white women leverage their privilege to the detriment of anyone they deem underneath them. My father used to tell my brothers when they were teens: "In everything you do in life ensure you are not caught in the dead of night with a crying white woman because you will absolutely be going to jail." And this is from a man who himself is mixed race.

Secondly of MLK. White liberals co-opt his speeches in the most bizarre ways! He basically said white liberals, so called 'allies' are actually the worst kind of people

Exactly. MLK had much to say about sly Liberals only concerned with order, not justice.

My father used to tell my brothers when they were teens: "In everything you do in life ensure you are not caught in the dead of night with a crying white woman because you will absolutely be going to jail."

Same.

& for Black Women at work, its the weaponised WW tears, designed to end careers and disrupt livelihoods. As my DD says - When they 'cry', you damn well 'cry' too.

@DeeCeeCherry

& for Black Women at work, its the weaponised WW tears, designed to end careers and disrupt livelihoods. As my DD says - When they 'cry', you damn well 'cry' too

I'm with your kid on this. If we are all descending to hell lets all go together!

That thread was deleted in the end but I wanted to point out that look at Amy Cooper. When I say smartphones are the best technology in this age I'm not lying, I'm not even pretending to be 'down with the kids' and whatever they've got going on. It's specifically because if that man had not had a smart phone to record, just like she said she'd have called the police and he'd have been shot on the spot. I don't fuck with certain yts because I know when push becomes shove it's me who'll have to answer questions.

The discussions on Ukraine and using the n-word are another level on this site.

When I say smartphones are the best technology in this age I'm not lying, I'm not even pretending to be 'down with the kids' and whatever they've got going on. It's specifically because if that man had not had a smart phone to record, just like she said she'd have called the police and he'd have been shot on the spot.

Absolutely right, and it gives me chills.

Weaponised crying...Perfect example Here

@Mookie81 I am not white, nor I have any connection with white. But want to be fair, I don't see a single abusive post towards black people here? It seems that these threads have become an outlet to criticise white people, make blanket statements or express reverse hate towards them. A bit disappointed that there are only a handful of comments on the shooting in US killing 11 innocent black people, compare that to the number of comments on thread with a title making a blanket statement about white people, it becomes clear what is important for many. Only one thread is in relation to the news of the hate shooting but there too OP is more concerned if it is covered as main news than any thought to victims.

Oookay
Just watched that... and I'm now here thinking why doesn't she just walk away if she feels so threatened?
Walk out of the shop?
What's all the lying down in front of the tills?!
Bizarre behaviour, I don't blame for filming really as you'd be wondering what was going on and if it was going to escalate!

If you abuse women (whether white middle aged women or not) by calling them Karen’s you’re no feminist. It’s no more complicated than that.

Those complaining about what a slur “Karen” is will be the first to calm a man a “cocklodger” - which is somehow not a slur or if it is deserved (unlike Karen which is never deserved lol).

And those feminists talking about “woman face” are probably using “toxic masculinity” and similar words day in day out.

These people are hypocrites and extremely ego centric. They really think they’re some kind of crusaders on a heroic quest. It’s funny.

White women this is what you look like coming into this thread