Comments from non Black women [Content warning added by MNHQ: mentions sexual offences in later post]

[hibye123]

I briefly read a thread posted on this board and even though I can't remember exactly what the post was about. I remember the OP had put a disclaimer in case the thread had appeared on the Active board and said that the post wasn't intended to offend anyone, rather it was posted in a safe space for Black women to support one another (or something along those lines!)

Sometimes when I look on a thread on this board I'll see comments from non Black women such as 'I hope it's okay if I chip in on here,' or 'I'm white and hope you don't mind if I comment' and so on.

I know this is the internet and no one can control who posts where but sometimes it makes me think what's the point in us having our own board when it's not entirely exclusive to us. There's loads of other boards that I might sometimes read through but wouldn't comment on because I simply can't relate. Such as the LGBT children/parents board or even the Scotsnet board just to give a few examples.

I was looking through previous threads and saw a similar thread had been made about a year ago regarding non Black women commenting on this board and saw this post quoted from a member of the Mumsnet team.
It read 'Just nipping in with a quick reminder ........

This board was set up as we're aware there will be sensitivities and common experiences that Black MNers will find easier to talk about in a dedicated space.

The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters. While some may be happy to answer questions on race, others may not and it's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.'

I really think it's great we have a Black MNetters board as different groupes of people really have different experiences within society, especially as we're considered to be apart of an ethnic minority. I also think the above comment from MNHQ was perfect! I just wondered what other Black women think when they see comments from non Black women on here

It is. They weren't without supporters for that comment, of course. Not that I'm surprised because I've seen such comments all over MN.

Just a bit 😲 😏 at the poster posting both comments on the same day. The wilful ignorance! The cheek! Ooh wee...

TheSinkInTheWashingMachine, well you only have to look at the different videos (with the same theme) that are going around and the storyline is exactly the same:

Black person minding their own business. White person having a problem with that, and kicking off

No different to here, really.

It's a disgrace. And I then get annoyed when people then say (that those in the vid) 'are clearly mentally ill' . No! They are not. They are just awful people!

Although I don't agree with the name 'Karen' to describe these women.. I know a couple of lovely women called Karen and they would never behave this way.

Let's stick with "entitled" as a term.
Don't play in the mud.

TheBlackDarner

Exactly..

@GoodGrief100

Speaking only for myself, and perhaps this is laziness on my part, but my thinking was by asking questions on a particular subject that was already being discussed on a thread, it's being seen by the very people you want views from. They are right there, but if it is irritating they do have the option of simply not replying if they don't want to or don't see it as their responsibility (but this comes back to the point PP are making about the board being primarily for bmn - fair enough). I come from a place of wanting to information share straight from the source. In terms of setting up a different thread, I've seen ones like this and to be honest, they seem to attract many who are quite narrow minded (in my view) and it just sparks arguments between posters as to who is 'right' and who is 'wrong' - which is not particularly helpful. The other point I didn't make earlier was that sometimes I don't think of these things until I see a thread on this board and it sparks a question (and I read the comments to understand better myself), so that's where my thought of just asking a question right there and then came to mind.

I think BW on here are here precisely because they are trying to get away from prying eyes.

So when you come over and ask questions, it's not welcome.

You might get some responses from BW who do not want to appear rude, but the bottom line is that they would be very happy with non-black women not posting here at all. If they wanted to field questions to all women they would use another board.

If you post here, making your comments or asking you questions from the position of a white woman, you make the space something very different. It becomes the multicultural space, or the All Women space, or. the White Women Asking Black Women Questions space. It is not intended as that space. Not at all.

If you are not white, please understand that we are very very happy if you do not post here. Very happy indeed.

It's really really very simple. I would be very happy if you would never post here again. And I am not being rude, I am being honest and clear.

I disagree with the BW on here who say it is sometimes ok for non-black women to post, sometimes not.

There needs to be a line, and I think that line is NO non-black women posting EXCEPT when they are offering something. Then they should offer, and leave.

For example, if a white women, clearly an ally, posted about Valerie's Law, to tell us about it that would be fantastic. I wouldn't then want her to stick around for the conversation and I tell you why, because then she would be centred. this board is not for the centering of white women. No one is posting on here wanting to know what white women think, so there is truly nothing a white woman can add.

I don't understand BW who say they are ok with either some white women, or white women who behave in a certain way posting on the board, because I then wonder, what is the multicultural board for, or the other spaces in MN? Black MN is not a convenient spot for non-black women to target black women for conversation or questions, we are here for the safe space.

Many of us are very traumatised by racism, perpetrated by non-black people. It is off-putting and upsetting to have conversions and then find out one is actually talking to a white woman, or that a white woman is involved.

For those who object to this, I also wonder about actual research. let's think about this - the NHS wants to know the experience of black women in labour in the UK. Is it ok for:

1. white women to answer about their own experiences?
2. white women to answer about their daughter's/granddaughter's/friend's experiences?
3. give their opinion on the experience of labour in general?
4. what they think black women experience?
5. pose their own questions?

It's not about whether YOU think the research will go to good use. It's not about the finding that would be wasted. It is about the fact that sometimes we ONLY WANT TO HEAR FROM CERTAIN PEOPLE. There is nothing racist in that, it is a natural by-product of the fact that we have different experiences because of certain factors, one being whether one is black or not.

It is not that your opinion is without value. It is not that you question isn't good one. It is not that you are not respected. It is not that this is not a free country.

One woman spoke about her children being mixed race. Ok, so your children, if they wanted to have some time among their peers so they went to a corner in the garden. Would you then go up and insist you sit amongst them because it is a free country? would you go and sit in the middle and ask 'so, what is it like being a teenager in the age of Insta?' or say 'Just me, a middle age mum here, and blather on?' I hope you would not, you would respect that they want to talk about pre-teen or teenage stuff, or whatever. It is really the same principle.

So my vote is PLEASE DO NOT POST IF YOU ARE NOT BLACK. When I see white women start to post on threads, I leave. If you are a well-meaning white woman you will not want to have that impact in a space like Black MN.

Thanks for your input, and others. I completely understand that this is not the right board to post questions now that it's been explained by you and others - it's useful to me to know and I'm pleased I now know the boundary and can respect that. As others have suggested to me, any questions I have I'll put in the Chat board and whoever would like to respond, can and others who have kindly offered their help where possible if I PM them. This will be the last comment from me on this thread.

Forgot my bonnet!

Sorry it's taking me so long to reply to you! @Jamdown123

To be honest, when writing this thread I thought the same thing. I thought there's really no need for non Black women to comment on this board at all. But when I really thought about it, this is the Internet. Non Black women will comment on this thread simply because they can and I really have no energy to argue with people who purposely want to be obtuse. As you can see throughout the thread, myself and a few others have been back and forth explaining why we don't need inputs from non Black women on this board and it's like it just goes over the other posters head!

I'm also the same. Once I'm reading a thread and I see a poster has commented stating they're White or Asian I just clock out. That's why I said in my original post, 'sometimes it makes me think what's the point in us having our own board when it's not entirely exclusive to us.' Sometimes it's just a pisstake especially when OPs are asking for certain experiences/explanations but what can we really do?! I just wish most would butt out and that's why I wondered what other Black women on this board thought

The Plopping and asking Questions malarky is a tactic used to disrupt.
(No matter how nice they may appear) Genuine people asking a question don't keep coming back and back to a thread, or interrupting a discussion to place themselves at the heart of it.

MNHQ deleted a thread complaining about this thread, and how horrible we all were to the nice Just Asking Questions people.
Nuff said.

Look back over this thread and consider the interventions on it.
Jings and others were spot on.

I think the wider audience on MN, who understand how dedicated boards should work, saw the derail attempts for themselves. One woman who kept interrupting, made us all hoot, when she then went onto another thread on MN, about men in womens spaces. Not on! Yet ok for her to do it to BMN. These people cannot see their own entitled behaviour, and we are not going to change it. No point in expending energy on it.

It does get tiresome, but some of us ( including myself) need to stop being a free resource for those who bring nothing to the table here.

The only people being centred on this board should be black women and children.That's what it's for. That does not make it racist.

Exactly,

I know people will ignore it. I am just using my voice to say it so no white women are under any illusions that they are 'wanted' here. They might be tolerated, but wanted? No.

Yep I'm with you 100%.

If any non Black women who are known for coming to this board whether it be to give opinions or start their own thread, suddenly stopped posting. I really wouldn't bat an eyelid! I'm simply here to see what's going on in the Black community, not the Black community with further additions.

I think your NHS analogy was so well written and so clear I don't see how anyone can read that and still think they're the exception😂 but hey ho what can you do!

Genuine people asking a question don't keep coming back and back to a thread, or interrupting a discussion to place themselves at the heart of it

It's really that simple!

MNHQ deleted a thread complaining about this thread, and how horrible we all were to the nice Just Asking Questions people.
Nuff said.

Haha wow really🤦🏾‍♀️ I didn't even see that! This is what I mean about the entitlement. Why do we have to be okay about you coming into our space asking questions and so forth. Black people really can't have anything, not even our own little board on a huge forum!

One woman who kept interrupting, made us all hoot, when she then went onto another thread on MN, about men in womens spaces. Not on! Yet ok for her to do it to BMN. These people cannot see their own entitled behaviour, and we are not going to change it. No point in expending energy on it.

Ahh yes I did see the comments within the thread referring to that, but hadn't seen her actual thread on the other topic! The double standards are honestly laughable but you know how it goes. If it's not affecting them, they're not interested in trying to understand

MNHQ deleted a thread complaining about this thread, and how horrible we all were to the nice Just Asking Questions people

I, and no doubt lots of other people, reported that TAAT, and was very gratified by the alacrity with which MNHQ removed it.

I missed that one @EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia

Where was it? Site stuff?

Black women aren't being 'kind' or nice enough to some people's liking? But they'll shout the house down if anyone dares suggest women should being kind or nice enough. I see we're seen as the exception and must remain subservient or be called angry and aggressive.

The double standards are honestly laughable but you know how it goes. If it's not affecting them, they're not interested in trying to understand

@hibye123 Exactly.

One woman spoke about her children being mixed race.

Mixed race doesn't mean they have black within that mixture.

And if they are then OK so where is your question about how or why one of your children is being treated badly because they are black?

No question? Then why are you posting on BMN?

Don’t remember - Chat or AIBU, possibly. Was heavily populated by people who had attempted to derail BMN threads.

Not surprising.

It was Chat. Craftily done. I only caught the deletion message.

As to who comes here, lets be honest with ourselves, it's a commercial forum with a small board primarily for black women and supporters. BUFU is not it's function. Terms and conditions apply.

I sometimes read these threads to educate myself on things outside of my experience but being white don't feel it appropriate to respond.

I'm breaking that stance to ask posters who don't understand why black women need a safe space to go and educate themselves on intersectionality. The experience of black women will be different to the experiences of black men and white women. Black women will experience racism and sexism in a way that a white woman or black man would not.

Being a white woman, I can't properly relate to the experiences of black women. I will continue to read threads like this to educate myself and understand a bit more about the diverse world in which I live.

I sometimes forget, when I’m chatting here about boarding schools, the naming of roses, 17th century painting, whatever, that there are silent people observing my interactions, as if looking through the bars of my cage …

EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia

Well, when we can't peacefully take up about 0.4% of the mumsnet talk section, without there being constant backlash, it would stand to reason why you would feel that way, unfortunately.

I know there's no way to verify people's race and ethnicity online and I don't expect it to happen. But I actually prefer when White women state that they're White while posting on here. At least you know who you're talking to and can respond if you want.

It's different when some people post on this board meant for Black women and have others assume they're Black or part-Black because they've stated that they're BAME, POC, multicultural, mixed race, have mixed family, etc - but you realise they've mentioned every label but Black or part-Black. Then you realise there's no Black in that mix. I find it to be deliberate and deceptive.

If people are going to post as non-Black women on this board, then do so. I don't think they need to use blanket terms to hide the fact that they don't have Black people in their family, then have BMNetters unknowingly share Black experiences with them thinking they're talking to fellow Black women.

It's like men coming into women spaces and talking about women's issues without disclosing that they're men. It's utterly deceptive.