Comments from non Black women [Content warning added by MNHQ: mentions sexual offences in later post]

[hibye123]

I briefly read a thread posted on this board and even though I can't remember exactly what the post was about. I remember the OP had put a disclaimer in case the thread had appeared on the Active board and said that the post wasn't intended to offend anyone, rather it was posted in a safe space for Black women to support one another (or something along those lines!)

Sometimes when I look on a thread on this board I'll see comments from non Black women such as 'I hope it's okay if I chip in on here,' or 'I'm white and hope you don't mind if I comment' and so on.

I know this is the internet and no one can control who posts where but sometimes it makes me think what's the point in us having our own board when it's not entirely exclusive to us. There's loads of other boards that I might sometimes read through but wouldn't comment on because I simply can't relate. Such as the LGBT children/parents board or even the Scotsnet board just to give a few examples.

I was looking through previous threads and saw a similar thread had been made about a year ago regarding non Black women commenting on this board and saw this post quoted from a member of the Mumsnet team.
It read 'Just nipping in with a quick reminder ........

This board was set up as we're aware there will be sensitivities and common experiences that Black MNers will find easier to talk about in a dedicated space.

The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters. While some may be happy to answer questions on race, others may not and it's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.'

I really think it's great we have a Black MNetters board as different groupes of people really have different experiences within society, especially as we're considered to be apart of an ethnic minority. I also think the above comment from MNHQ was perfect! I just wondered what other Black women think when they see comments from non Black women on here

hibye123, exactly. I know it's not exclusion, which was why I posted in response to bluntness.

Speaking only for myself, and perhaps this is laziness on my part, but my thinking was by asking questions on a particular subject that was already being discussed on a thread, it's being seen by the very people you want views from. They are right there, but if it is irritating they do have the option of simply not replying if they don't want to or don't see it as their responsibility (but this comes back to the point PP are making about the board being primarily for bmn - fair enough). I come from a place of wanting to information share straight from the source. In terms of setting up a different thread, I've seen ones like this and to be honest, they seem to attract many who are quite narrow minded (in my view) and it just sparks arguments between posters as to who is 'right' and who is 'wrong' - which is not particularly helpful. The other point I didn't make earlier was that sometimes I don't think of these things until I see a thread on this board and it sparks a question (and I read the comments to understand better myself), so that's where my thought of just asking a question right there and then came to mind.

@PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine

What I have the biggest issue with is the entitlement. Whether it's those who think they must post because it's an open forum even when their suggestion is irrelevant to the discussion, or those who go about bmn marking their territory and adding their two pence worth to every post - including ones asking for Black Women's perspective - because they feel they belong and 'not like other white women'.

Some threads here are open to anyone to contribute to. Not all. You will know because the OP wouldn't ask what other Black women think.

This is it really! It really is the entitlement and the audacity for me. Someone below linked the thread to the one mentioned in my Original Post (I didn't know the thread was still going on as I saw it started in 2020, my bad🤦🏾‍♀️) but I saw you comment this which I agree with so much. 'Nobody is saying that white people shouldn't be involved in the discussion, however some white people aren't able to contribute without centreing themselves, or dominating the conversation, as so often happens (especially) to Black women, in real life. And that's where the problem lies.' This is really what the issue is. I think non Black women should really pick and choose carefully what posts they should comment on (due to the nature of the post) and even if they decide to comment, they really need to think about the tone and the way certain comments come across.

@TheBlackDarner raised a good point when saying 'is it because you have an uncontrollable urge to interrupt black women talking about being interrupted, in a black safe place?' A lot of people do this whether subconsciously or not

@GoodGrief100

How would black MN's feel about white women asking questions relating to a thread they know nothing or very little about, to educate themselves? I understand the reasonings for this post (I'm white and I don't post on the black mumsnet threads at all) but it would be good to gauge when it would be appropriate to ask questions and when not? Obviously there is a difference between asking a genuine question and posting to say your views aren't correct/they understand your POV because they have family or friends who are black. I guess it's quite intimidating for a white woman to post on this board and understanding expectations is a good place to start (and this thread has helped).

It’s a no from me. Me being the operative word because no one made me speaker for the people. Others may feel differently. Its the same principle of entitlement.

The other day my husband and I were were pondering over aspects of Orthodox Judaism. We’ve both been on the internet for three days & have shared information between us.
I’m reading a forum currently. People ask Rabbis what is and isn’t permissible. It’s fascinating & im wiser than I was at the beginning of the week.
All this without asking anyone for their time or emotional labour.
At no point have I felt the need to pipe up with “Hi, black woman here. Just trying to educate myself. What do Jewish people like on their pizza?”.

You may think that your question wouldn’t be so silly but usually it is. What do you do with your hair? Is as obtuse as pizza toppings. In this house we have 5 different hair types alone.
If the topic has more importance then when it is discussed organically you can observe and peripherally educate yourself.
In a nutshell, have you ever had anyone ask you anything pertaining to your whiteness and if they did how would you answer for all white people?

As an aside, I know that people like to run with that “well my black friend said....” I often think people ask one black person so that they can go and gaslight another.

@THisbackwithavengeance

It is interesting that you think that white women with black children have nothing to offer or contribute.

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

I haven't sought this thread out btw, it was on active convos and it's a free country so....

But the point they're all making is that YOU are not black. When they're asking for a POV from a black woman, you don't fit because your experiences will be different from theirs - because your white. Read the comments and really think about what everyone is posting.

@TheBlackDarner

I'd like to suggest that we ask MNHQ to put some kind of pinned heading on the board explaining what this board is supposed to be about.

There are amazing people, who are not black, supporting a really important petition here at the moment, which means so much. Thankyou so much.

And yet, here we are with Groundhog day running on the rest of the board.

I'm thinking we need something to swiftly refer some visitors to, so that we either don't have to keep explaining, get derailed, get in a goady bunfight etc.

Questions can be posted anywhere else on MN if people are looking for advice re matters black/want to express their all lives matter views/ etc.

So what do black mumsnetters think about asking MNHQ for an explaining type statement pinned on top of this board? It won't stop interrupters, but if they keep interrupting ,after seeing the pinned post, a press of the report button means that moderators can liase and explain off the Board ?

I personally think this would be a great idea. It'd be like a constant reminder of what this board is actually for

If it's a space only for black women, then MN needs to make it clear that no-one else is allowed to post here. It's hardly fair to blame people for posting on a thread showing up in active, if it's not made clear that they are not allowed to do so.

@Blackisblackisblack

hibye123, exactly. I know it's not exclusion, which was why I posted in response to bluntness.

Sorry the explanation was for @Bluntness100 not you, however I was agreeing with your post!

@THisbackwithavengeance

It is interesting that you think that white women with black children have nothing to offer or contribute.

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

I haven't sought this thread out btw, it was on active convos and it's a free country so....

I think you misunderstand. Of course you have had appalling things happen. There is also a Board for multicultural families for support for example. No one is saying you can't post here. This thread is about black women talking to black women about being black women. And people who aren't black women derailing a thread.

If you are a mum on a thread for mums about childbirth and a man decided to tell you about childbirth, it changes the thread.

If you are a white mum with black children and start a thread asking other whte mums with black children about something that affects you, would you want a white mum of white children interrupting and telling you what to think? I don't think so.

This board was created following heinous racism experienced by Patricks Rum, from non-Black MNers. I always keep that in mind.

I see it as a safe space away from racists, whitesplainers, 'mah man is Black', educate me on this or that, non-Black with way too much to say on this board yet I've never ever seen them call racists out on MN.

There are 2 White allies on the board I find to be genuine that I will dialogue with. Thats about it. The rest I ignore and don't respond to whatever they say. They crave dialogue/attention, I'm happy not to provide that and don't have time or inclination for 'yeah but...' as I don't care what they think.

I recall being on a thread here and a White Woman had comments deleted yet she kept name-changing and appearing here again, within minutes, with her unasked for contributions about caring for Black Women's hair. Madness.

This board shouldn't be in Active

Happy Saturday Sistas.

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

And so am I. But what of it? I really think our credentials have nothing to do with the point in hand, but flex away..

The truth still be told that if I was looking for advice on a situation that other black women have faced, I wouldn't be seeking out your opinion because you are not black.

As for you saying you find it interesting that you would have nothing to offer... Well, what do you have to offer apart from being annoyed that you can't join in a conversation that you, personally, not your children, have not had to face?

So the hair question I totally get - to me that's easily looked into and, yes, a silly question to ask on a forum. What I'm more interested in finding out more about is the experiences of black people in our country (UK) eg systematic failures. I've huge issues with media trust and information sources online so to me it wouldn't be so stupid to ask a 'big' question where there's a majority black presence (hence bmn). Again, I've never done this and it seems it wouldn't be welcome if I ever did but I asked a question - and now I know and understand better for asking.

@DeeCeeCherry

This board was created following heinous racism experienced by Patricks Rum, from non-Black MNers. I always keep that in mind.

I see it as a safe space away from racists, whitesplainers, 'mah man is Black', educate me on this or that, non-Black with way too much to say on this board yet I've never ever seen them call racists out on MN.

There are 2 White allies on the board I find to be genuine that I will dialogue with. Thats about it. The rest I ignore and don't respond to whatever they say. They crave dialogue/attention, I'm happy not to provide that and don't have time or inclination for 'yeah but...' as I don't care what they think.

I recall being on a thread here and a White Woman had comments deleted yet she kept name-changing and appearing here again, within minutes, with her unasked for contributions about caring for Black Women's hair. Madness.

This board shouldn't be in Active

Happy Saturday Sistas.

I agree with all of this 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

It's not about being on Active or not. That's an odd and convenient excuse. It's as simple as reading the OP and seeing "I just want to know what other Black women think..." - Like this thread. Then asking yourself "Am I a Black woman?"

Where the OP hasn't mentioned this (because the OP may not be looking for that specifically but for anyone to contribute), you could get away with that excuse, even if the thread is obviously about Black women's first hand experience.

saraclara, but why would a person, who is not black, want to post an opinion and something they have never experienced? And, what's more, post about something that wasn't aimed at them?

Please, help me out, here?

@THisbackwithavengeance

It is interesting that you think that white women with black children have nothing to offer or contribute.

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

I haven't sought this thread out btw, it was on active convos and it's a free country so....

I think you're missing the point. You yourself are not Black. If I'm asking for other Black women's input/POV/experiences you won't have anything to contribute to the conversation simply because you're not Black. You may now look at things differently due to some things you may have experienced through your kids and may be more 'educated' than the average White women, but that doesn't mean you're on par with me or any other Black woman here.

For example, I worked with a really nice White woman who had teenage mixed race daughters and I remember I was talking about selling things on Depop/Gumtree. I was saying that whenever I take a picture of something, I never include my hand to show people that I'm black (sounds extreme but some people really wouldn't buy something from you just because of your skin colour.)
She was so shocked and explained that she'd never have to think of something like that due to her being White and realised that may be something her daughters might do when they were older too. So just because she had mixed race kids didn't mean she could relate to something as small as that.

The discussions on this board aren't always about race, but how things effect us in day to day life in ways that you honestly couldn't relate too

That was to people who keep saying "I found this in Active". Not aimed at Deeceecherry or StarSeeking's post.

Like any space on the Internet it relies on good faith even with rules or whatever as a pinned post. There is no requirement when signing up to mumsnet to prove your ethnicity, from some posts (not the 'I'm white but...') on this board I'd question the person's intentions and whether they are the intended users of the board anyway. I'd say like any forum, only invest emotional labour that you don't mind losing should the poster turn out to be disingenuous- sad as that is.

GoodGrief100, don't you have black friends that you could ask?

Genuine question.

@DeeCeeCherry

This board was created following heinous racism experienced by Patricks Rum, from non-Black MNers. I always keep that in mind.

I see it as a safe space away from racists, whitesplainers, 'mah man is Black', educate me on this or that, non-Black with way too much to say on this board yet I've never ever seen them call racists out on MN.

There are 2 White allies on the board I find to be genuine that I will dialogue with. Thats about it. The rest I ignore and don't respond to whatever they say. They crave dialogue/attention, I'm happy not to provide that and don't have time or inclination for 'yeah but...' as I don't care what they think.

I recall being on a thread here and a White Woman had comments deleted yet she kept name-changing and appearing here again, within minutes, with her unasked for contributions about caring for Black Women's hair. Madness.

This board shouldn't be in Active

Happy Saturday Sistas.

I agree.

Also as an ironic aside, I sometimes find BMN a “slower” area. The lovely people are there but you don’t always get a response straight away. Not a criticism just people living their lives.

This thread is in active due to the high volume of traffic in a short space of time. It’s a thread that will stay in active whilst people post, despite there being a similar thread already in BMN.

I made a thread this morning asking for advice and it’s still sitting there, quietly minding its own business with just my op.

@saraclara

If it's a space only for black women, then MN needs to make it clear that no-one else is allowed to post here. It's hardly fair to blame people for posting on a thread showing up in active, if it's not made clear that they are not allowed to do so.

Saraclara, we aren't saying blacks only. Neither is MNHQ We are saying respect it as a safe space for black women to discuss matters affecting black women.

For example. A man interrupts a thread on Mumsnet just to say "man here" bringing nothing valid to a conversation about, say, c sections. Yet he keeps rubbishing women's posts about their own c sections, insisting that someone explains c sections to him when every other mum knows what it is, then it's damned rude at the least to derail that thread.

(And as a Mum who has never been through a c section I would read but not comment as nothing relevant to say)

However, if a man posted on a c section thread for mums to say," hey I'm a nurse working with mums so what about this." Then that is obviously relevant to the thread.

On this board, a minority of people post to derail a board because they just don't like black people full stop.

What I see day after day on this safe board aimed at black mumsnetters and supporters of black mumsnetters are people who are not black just interrupting

@Blackisblackisblack

GoodGrief100, don't you have black friends that you could ask?

Genuine question.

I don't. I live in a very rural village where I grew up and there is not a single black person that lives here.

@Blackisblackisblack

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

And so am I. But what of it? I really think our credentials have nothing to do with the point in hand, but flex away..

The truth still be told that if I was looking for advice on a situation that other black women have faced, I wouldn't be seeking out your opinion because you are not black.

As for you saying you find it interesting that you would have nothing to offer... Well, what do you have to offer apart from being annoyed that you can't join in a conversation that you, personally, not your children, have not had to face?

👏🏾👏🏽

I particularly liked this:

And so am I. But what of it? I really think our credentials have nothing to do with the point in hand, but flex away..

GoodGrief100

Fair play, I guess there's not a lot you can do about that, then.