Comments from non Black women [Content warning added by MNHQ: mentions sexual offences in later post]

[hibye123]

I briefly read a thread posted on this board and even though I can't remember exactly what the post was about. I remember the OP had put a disclaimer in case the thread had appeared on the Active board and said that the post wasn't intended to offend anyone, rather it was posted in a safe space for Black women to support one another (or something along those lines!)

Sometimes when I look on a thread on this board I'll see comments from non Black women such as 'I hope it's okay if I chip in on here,' or 'I'm white and hope you don't mind if I comment' and so on.

I know this is the internet and no one can control who posts where but sometimes it makes me think what's the point in us having our own board when it's not entirely exclusive to us. There's loads of other boards that I might sometimes read through but wouldn't comment on because I simply can't relate. Such as the LGBT children/parents board or even the Scotsnet board just to give a few examples.

I was looking through previous threads and saw a similar thread had been made about a year ago regarding non Black women commenting on this board and saw this post quoted from a member of the Mumsnet team.
It read 'Just nipping in with a quick reminder ........

This board was set up as we're aware there will be sensitivities and common experiences that Black MNers will find easier to talk about in a dedicated space.

The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters. While some may be happy to answer questions on race, others may not and it's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.'

I really think it's great we have a Black MNetters board as different groupes of people really have different experiences within society, especially as we're considered to be apart of an ethnic minority. I also think the above comment from MNHQ was perfect! I just wondered what other Black women think when they see comments from non Black women on here

I just don’t understand how many ways they need to be told. It’s mind numblingly tedious.
The most irritating are those that feel they are the exemption because of their proximity to blackness. They have a black partner, children, friends.
My husband is Asian, we have children, this does not give me licence to insert myself into a space meant for Asian people because I am not Asian. In any case I have zero urge to. It wouldn’t occur to me that I would feel any contribution from me would nourish that space.
If you’re starting a paragraph with “maybe I shouldn’t comment” then you already know.

I see these things like the same:

• Man here.
• White woman here.

• I have a wife and daughters.
• I have a black dp/dh/bf.

• I'm going to speak for women/act like I'm a woman and center myself or lead or shut down conversations on their behalf.

• I'm going to speak for Black women/act like I'm a Black woman and center myself or lead or shut down conversations on their behalf.

No, how about you go do that in men spaces among fellow men. Speak up in those spaces. That's where you'll be a good ally for women.

No, how about you go do that in white women spaces among your fellow white women. Speak up in those spaces. That's how you'll be a good ally for Black women.

I don't mind the occasional ally or white woman posting here. Some have great contributions on some topics. What irks me is when it's a thread specifically about and for Black women, I don't see the need to join in because they don't have a Black woman's perspective. So why join in the conversation, especially when not indicating that you're speaking from a white woman pov. That's my problem with some who post speaking for us and as if they're us on threads about us.

As some Black women put it on one of the threads on this board, "sleeping with a black man and having mixed race children doesn't make you a black woman".

Another thing that irritates me is when someone brings issues of discrimination for other groups here because, you know, Black women are experts on discrimination for all groups. We must also renounce it or face being called hypocrites for caring about us, especially when those groups rarely cared about us until they faced discrimination. F-that! We can speak against it on the main board like white women. Don't make it our/Black women's problem.

I enjoyed reading that thread from last year again and there were so many comments from Black women that I loved and wished I could just copy and paste all of them but they're too many. I copied and pasted some there (I resurrected the thread, sorry not sorry) and those are my thoughts too.

There are allies who drop in a useful contribution. e.g will post about a scholarship for black students. They drop and go. They don't lecture. It's an occasional thing. It doesn't change the flow of an existing thread. Great! Thankyou. Helpful. These are women who know what BMN is for.

However.....

I already know that black skin is really brown.

I already know that white skin is pink.

I'm not interested in your aunt using the word "coloured" back in the day.

I'm not being racist against white people by wanting to talk here to black women.

I'm not interested in your views on your friend's frizzy hair. Send me her contact details, and I'll let her know what an arse you are.

I don't need someone telling me what is wrong with what they perceive to be " black feminism". I'm not sodding interested in anyones views who think it's ok to invading a black space to lecture me about books to read, whilst elsewhere going on about safe spaces for women.

(Incidentally, Ithought it was crap, but like to make my own mind up without a white censor looking over my shoulder)

And if people on BMN aren't answering a thread, it's either because it's a small board and it takes a while sometimes, or we think it's dodgy. We don't need the MN busy body plopping on with a sarcastic quip because said busybody just can't leave a thread on MN without a piss mark on it.

Someone squatted on here last week on a thread to call me "uppity", (deleted).I wasn't talking to them nicely enough apparently. Just because I think you are dim doesnt make me an Aggressive Black Woman

White Tourism
White Saviours
Whitesplainers
White demanders of explanations
White Entrepreneurs seeking accolades
White bosses asking how to deal with difficult black staff members.

It's not what why I'm here. Use the damn internet and look things up.
Or even start a thread of your own in Chat, we'll drop by, if able, and if we want, to help.

Kick me up the bum if anyone sees me being overly polite again on here, It's wearing me out.

PS. For those who don't know looking in.
There's a board already for multicultural families.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/multicultural_families

I think there are some great allies on this thread. And I am always thankful to them

But, I honestly think it boils down to certain (and certainly not all) white people thinking that they have a right to barge in without knocking...that we, perhaps, haven't taken their ideas on board. Erm, yes, we have..but we're still not interested/think you are being obtuse.

I also think that we are patronised, and that we don't deserve agency over our own thoughts/feelings, and if we'd just listen to that (white) woman over there, we may come to our senses!

It's no different than Facebook warriors who seem to know more about Covid than the top scientists, although this is slightly less embarrassing..

Some just can't seem to leave us alone. It's unearned entitlement.

Very peculiar.

I just wondered what other Black women think when they see comments from non Black women on here

In response to your question above, the entitlement is ingrained, embedded and deeply conditioned. Many are affronted that this tiny online space has been provided for Black women, and see their exclusion as an indignity.

I've been on the BMN board since its creation. It's been explained hundreds of times why BMN board exists, and what it's for, yet there's always somebody waiting to join in to eagerly proclaim that it's racist against white people

I generally ignore them, skip over their posts to continue the conversation, as I can pretty much identify (in my head, and not by asking!) whether a writer is genuinely Black from their posts here.

The most irritating are those that feel they are the exemption because of their proximity to blackness. They have a black partner, children, friends.

They seem to circle bmn too, waiting for any little opportunity to make their presence and gaze known.

I never join in those boards but I recall when it was created and the posters who wished it for them felt very strongly that no form of exclusion should take place and that was the premise it was created under.

I just wondered what other Black women think when they see comments from non Black women on here

Just what I mean. OP @Hibye123 should've put that disclaimer on this thread too.

@TheBlackDarner You asked. Supersoaker ready?

The most irritating are those that feel they are the exemption because of their proximity to blackness. They have a
black partner, children, friends.

This is it. Just because you may be surrounded by Black people doesn't mean that gives you access to speak in a space meant for Black people! It's actually quite interesting that so many people seem to think that's the case.

What irks me is when it's a thread specifically about and for Black women, I don't see the need to join in because they don't have a Black woman's perspective. So why join in the conversation, especially when not indicating that you're speaking from a white woman pov.

And I think that's the best thing about this board, we are able to write about situations and ask for advice from other Black women and see their perspective. I didn't think this would be so hard to understand

Hello, Bluntness100

Talking to other black women about a situation that only other black women can understand, is not exclusion.

It may just mean that the situation in hands calls for like minded individuals who have experienced whatever the concern is.

Again, that is NOT exclusion.

There are allies who drop in a useful contribution. e.g will post about a scholarship for black students. They drop and go. They don't lecture. It's an occasional thing.

I agree that there are certain topics where comments given by non Black women may be helpful due to the nature of the thread. However I really think it depends what the thread is about and more often then not, their comments add no weight to the discussion as they're not able to see things through a Black women's perspective.

But, I honestly think it boils down to certain (and certainly not all) white people thinking that they have a right to barge in without knocking...that we, perhaps, haven't taken their ideas on board. Erm, yes, we have..but we're still not interested/think you are being obtuse.

I also think that we are patronised, and that we don't deserve agency over our own thoughts/feelings, and if we'd just listen to that (white) woman over there, we may come to our senses!

Haha yes this is exactly it really! It's as if certain people feel like their opinions are just so needed that they can't leave a thread without commenting.

*In response to your question above, the entitlement is ingrained, embedded and deeply conditioned. Many are affronted that this tiny online space has been provided for Black women, and see their exclusion as an indignity.

I've been on the BMN board since its creation. It's been explained hundreds of times why BMN board exists, and what it's for, yet there's always somebody waiting to join in to eagerly proclaim that it's racist against white people *

I recently saw a comment saying this board is racist against White women and all I could do is laugh! Just because Black women would like a space to speak to other Black women, it means it's racist against other White women. It's almost like the definition of racist is purposely misunderstood just to fit a narrative.

I also agree with your comment about some people seeing their exclusion as an indignity. I really think it's the exclusion that seems to be the issue. It reminds me of instances I've been involved in where White people have asked, 'if Black people can say the N word then that's the issue with White people saying it?' It's like the fact that they can't be involved is more of an issue and I find that really interesting

@PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine

The most irritating are those that feel they are the exemption because of their proximity to blackness. They have a black partner, children, friends.

They seem to circle bmn too, waiting for any little opportunity to make their presence and gaze known.

100% lol I do find this so odd

How would black MN's feel about white women asking questions relating to a thread they know nothing or very little about, to educate themselves? I understand the reasonings for this post (I'm white and I don't post on the black mumsnet threads at all) but it would be good to gauge when it would be appropriate to ask questions and when not? Obviously there is a difference between asking a genuine question and posting to say your views aren't correct/they understand your POV because they have family or friends who are black. I guess it's quite intimidating for a white woman to post on this board and understanding expectations is a good place to start (and this thread has helped).

Quite. @Blackisblackisblack

Not sure who else should be included when the OP wants Black women to respond on issues from a Black woman's pov. It's not a general topic thread. Those anyone can join in, even if it's on bmn. Like you've just said @Hibye123 I agree.

Do we include men when we want to talk to other women and get their first hand pov on periods and childbirth?

@Bluntness100 I agree with the comment made by @Blackisblackisblack

Just because we desire to speak to other Black women about situations that non Black women may not understand or may not have experienced, does not mean it's exclusion. I do sometimes think, why comment on something you know has nothing to do with you. Especially when a OP may make a thread asking for other people's experiences and you see comments like 'I'm white but hope you don't mind....' it's really not the same thing as hearing an experience from a Black woman first thing.

I also included the comment from MNHQ from the previous thread that was similar to this which said, 'The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters.' I think every non Black woman should keep this at the forefront of their mind when wanting to comment on this board

@Bluntness100

I never join in those boards but I recall when it was created and the posters who wished it for them felt very strongly that no form of exclusion should take place and that was the premise it was created under.

Why are you posting here Bluntness? (Inaccurate recall, it was set up as a safe space for black women, and supporters, to discuss matters affecting black women, from a black perspective.)

I never join in those boards You say. On this board.

And yet here you are posting? Are you lost?

Are you black?

Are you an ally, and bringing something to the board which is constructive?

Is it because you have an uncontrollable urge to interrupt black women talking about being interrupted, in a black safe space?

There is one board on MN that doesn't show up in Active Convos. People only find it by word of mouth. Maybe this one should be the same.

What I have the biggest issue with is the entitlement. Whether it's those who think they must post because it's an open forum even when their suggestion is irrelevant to the discussion, or those who go about bmn marking their territory and adding their two pence worth to every post - including ones asking for Black Women's perspective - because they feel they belong and 'not like other white women'.

Some threads here are open to anyone to contribute to. Not all. You will know because the OP wouldn't ask what other Black women think.

I'd like to suggest that we ask MNHQ to put some kind of pinned heading on the board explaining what this board is supposed to be about.

There are amazing people, who are not black, supporting a really important petition here at the moment, which means so much. Thankyou so much.

And yet, here we are with Groundhog day running on the rest of the board.

I'm thinking we need something to swiftly refer some visitors to, so that we either don't have to keep explaining, get derailed, get in a goady bunfight etc.

Questions can be posted anywhere else on MN if people are looking for advice re matters black/want to express their all lives matter views/ etc.

So what do black mumsnetters think about asking MNHQ for an explaining type statement pinned on top of this board? It won't stop interrupters, but if they keep interrupting ,after seeing the pinned post, a press of the report button means that moderators can liase and explain off the Board ?

@TheOccupier

There is one board on MN that doesn't show up in Active Convos. People only find it by word of mouth. Maybe this one should be the same.

Hi TheOccupier Thanks for this. There was a discussion a while back on a thread here about that. (I know the Board you mean) At the time, the general feeling here, I think, was we didn't want new mumsnetters who are black, not to be able to find us easily. However, I think it's something that needs to be considered, as a year on, it's the same old stuff.

The problem with making it only “word of mouth” is that at anytime a new person could join MN, looking for support, advice, friendship or just a chat and they wouldn’t find it.

@GoodGrief100

How would black MN's feel about white women asking questions relating to a thread they know nothing or very little about, to educate themselves? I understand the reasonings for this post (I'm white and I don't post on the black mumsnet threads at all) but it would be good to gauge when it would be appropriate to ask questions and when not? Obviously there is a difference between asking a genuine question and posting to say your views aren't correct/they understand your POV because they have family or friends who are black. I guess it's quite intimidating for a white woman to post on this board and understanding expectations is a good place to start (and this thread has helped).

TW: rape mention.

This is my thing. It isn't the responsibility of the OP to educate White women or anyone else who is non Black, on the Black MNetters board.

If you've seen a thread and want to ask questions relating to the thread or would like to educate yourself, what's stopping you making a thread on the Chat board (for example) and ask Black MNetters for their opinions if that's what you're after specifically. Why come into the space that's made for Black women to choose to do that? I see how it may be innocent on your part but I really do find it quite annoying.

In my original post, I like when MNHQ said, 'It's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.' And it really is not.

Your question reminds me of many discussions where women may be discussing a situation where someone has come out on social media to say they were raped by someone and goes on to explain the details. There's always a minority of people who comment things like, 'women lie all the time about rape how do we know this is true?' and so forth.

If that is such an issue on those people's minds, why did they have to wait until a rape victim comes out to say her story to comment that? Why can't they make their own post asking questions about the small minority of women that do lie?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/black_mumsnetters/4109345-White-women-posting-on-Black-Mumsnetters-all-good

This is an extensive thread that may interest you @hibye123 - worth a peruse.

It is interesting that you think that white women with black children have nothing to offer or contribute.

As a white woman I have experienced racism indirectly through my black children and have experienced discrimination or prejudice myself because the common mantra is that white women who have black DCs are thick, low-class etc (think Vicky Pollard). Have experienced this loads of times and then the look of shock when they find out I'm a degree educated professional...

I haven't sought this thread out btw, it was on active convos and it's a free country so....