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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

OP posts:
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Heiferr · 15/03/2021 01:15

Oh look, a black woman being accused of lying about her experience... never seen that happen before 🙄

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 15/03/2021 01:17

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HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:20

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Benelovencd · 15/03/2021 01:20

Because campaigns against those things only matter when it is white women and not Black women. Black victims are ignored, underrepresented and not prioritised. It only matters when the victim is white.

It is not an issue of BW looking for other people to lead on their issues. It's a matter of BW bringing up issues affecting us and gaining no support from feminists or being told to focus on the bigger issue, and to "stop making everything about race". And pushing BW and their issues to the periphery where we become fringe matters or forgotten.

We share the collective outrage and march with you and support and stand with you when the victim is white but when the victim is Black this is not reciprocated and when pointed out the answer of "stop making it about race" or "focus on the bigger picture".

Its white feminism being able to recognise the misogyny perpetrated against a white woman in the public eye, but when it is a Black women, the feminists themselves joining in and perpetuating that misogynoir and minimising it to everything else but. There is always a double standard when it comes to BW.

It's being so tone deaf and quite racist to think songs and phrases like "women are the ns of the world" is okay, forgetting some of us are both women and Black.

Feminism is not for us. Thats okay. We still stand and fight for women's rights but we will not continue to try and navigate the cluster fuck that is white feminism and its lack of inclusivity and intersectionality.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 15/03/2021 01:20

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HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:21

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Heiferr · 15/03/2021 01:22

Ffs this is ridiculous.

Didn't happen... where's the link... where's the evidence...

This is what happens to black women ALL THE TIME

It was completely obvious to me what @HmmmmmmInteresting meant by that post or is being facetious to drive home a point not allowed.

Even a post where black women are discussing their experiences of being excluded from mainstream feminism isn't a safe space. This is exactly what we're talking about.

Benelovencd · 15/03/2021 01:23

Perfectly put Heiferr

lunarlife · 15/03/2021 01:24

I'm struggling to believe that this was an exchange on the feminist board, (but if I was shown a link I would of course accept it)

It doesn't seem in keeping with the boards I've looked at there, not to mention that Mumsnet doesn't seem likely to accepted this kind of exchange.

Benelovencd · 15/03/2021 01:27

Literally coming on BMN to prove BW right about everything they are saying

Quaagars · 15/03/2021 01:29

I don't think anyone should be telling another woman "it didn't happen."
I know for a fact that people attack other women on there for holding a different opinion.
Just because it's more than likely been deleted now as would have been an outright guideline break, doesn't mean it couldn't have been sent in the first place.

Heiferr · 15/03/2021 01:31

This is also indicative of the wider issue we have with racism in this country actually. It's only racist/prejudice/exclusionary if specific pejorative language was used, anything else is fair game for denial. We are telling you this is our lived experience every single day. We've heard enough micro aggressions and had enough of our experiences challenged to know what language basically translates to fuck off you black bitch. But unless you see it in black and white, it didn't happen. This is exhausting.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:32

The person that started this BMN board was given hate mail and threatened to the point she had to involve the police. They found out her address and doxxed her. She's not even on here any more and who can blame her?

lunarlife · 15/03/2021 01:33

I'm not seeing any issues with saying that mainstream white oriented feminism doesn't speak to your issues OP.
Or prioritize what you see as key issues.

That is different to making up abusive exchanges that seem unlikely to have happened.

If these words were said then I am truly appalled, I would expect the person to have been thrown off Mumsnet and I hope they were.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:35

@Quaagars

I don't think anyone should be telling another woman "it didn't happen." I know for a fact that people attack other women on there for holding a different opinion. Just because it's more than likely been deleted now as would have been an outright guideline break, doesn't mean it couldn't have been sent in the first place.
You are correct that it's been deleted and I was under a different name. It is upsetting all these people telling me it didn't happen, but tbh I didn't expect anything else.
thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 15/03/2021 01:40

@Quaagars

I don't think anyone should be telling another woman "it didn't happen." I know for a fact that people attack other women on there for holding a different opinion. Just because it's more than likely been deleted now as would have been an outright guideline break, doesn't mean it couldn't have been sent in the first place.
Actually very true. I apologise HmmmmmmInteresting, that's really disturbing, if I see derogatory language on MN I report it asap. I'll be honest personally I see a lot of racism on the main boards but I haven't seen it on the feminism ones but just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen and I'm sorry I disbelieved you.
Quaagars · 15/03/2021 01:41

@HmmmmmmInteresting

The person that started this BMN board was given hate mail and threatened to the point she had to involve the police. They found out her address and doxxed her. She's not even on here any more and who can blame her?
Sad I remember all the shit and abuse she got just for trying to set the board up, but not about the address. Awful
HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:41

@Heiferr

This is also indicative of the wider issue we have with racism in this country actually. It's only racist/prejudice/exclusionary if specific pejorative language was used, anything else is fair game for denial. We are telling you this is our lived experience every single day. We've heard enough micro aggressions and had enough of our experiences challenged to know what language basically translates to fuck off you black bitch. But unless you see it in black and white, it didn't happen. This is exhausting.
So many people are shocked that somebody could come out with a phrase like that explicitly, but they're all right with people saying it implicitly. We see you.
areyoumeop · 15/03/2021 01:42

in the case of Sarah E the reaction is understandable as people will identify with people who are the same, ie, white middle-class professional and put themselves at the same level of risk and also don't see the same risk when something equally as horrendous happens to someone not in their mirror, look at the atrocities across the world routinely ignored or protested about by the majority of the populace

Harriedharriet · 15/03/2021 01:43

@Heiferr

Ffs this is ridiculous.

Didn't happen... where's the link... where's the evidence...

This is what happens to black women ALL THE TIME

It was completely obvious to me what @HmmmmmmInteresting meant by that post or is being facetious to drive home a point not allowed.

Even a post where black women are discussing their experiences of being excluded from mainstream feminism isn't a safe space. This is exactly what we're talking about.

Yes - clearly facetious post.
7Days · 15/03/2021 01:49

It didnt happen heiferr
An actual untruthful statement will get picked up on. That's fair enough I think.

benelovencd language like women are the n* of the world is not something I've seen on these boards. I cant imagine if someone posted that it wouldn't be reported in 2 seconds.

Personally I haven't seen anything but support on the Fwr boards for any woman of any background.

I haven't seen misogynoir at all. I dont doubt it exists in the world but I haven't seen it on the boards.

Please come over and start threads about the topics that interest you. It wouldn't be appropriate for white women to talk about and centre black womens issues without the input of black women themselves.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:54

Did I accidentally post on the feminism board,? Because I'm getting the denial I'd expect from there.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 15/03/2021 01:58

Please come over and start threads about the topics that interest you
Of course it's up to you, but I'd advise you not to.

Quaagars · 15/03/2021 01:58

Personally I haven't seen anything but support on the Fwr boards for any woman of any background

Grin

I'm sorry, but that is utter, utter UTTER bollocks.
Just because you have seen nothing but support, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
It does
There's a certain type of feminism only on there - if you don't "fit in", whether by being black, or deemed a handmaiden, or trans inclusive, you're fair game for abuse and attacked.
Anyway, isn't this a space for people to give their experiences without people getting indignant and telling them it didn't happen, that they're lying? Hmm
I can well believe it happened.

Benelovencd · 15/03/2021 02:02

@HmmmmmmInteresting

Did I accidentally post on the feminism board,? Because I'm getting the denial I'd expect from there.
I don't know why people don't just scroll down and walk away when they have nothing constructive to add and they are not the intended audience. Sadly this is becoming de riguer on BMN.

Also I never said that phrase was on the feminism board. I spoke about why feminism is exclusionary and problematic to BW. I cannot be a part of a movement that does and says things like that.

And honestly with the racism I have seen on the feminism board, I wouldn't bother. At least BMN is supposed to be a safe space even though it seems to attract goady posters who come and question and minimise our lived experiences, when all BW are trying to do is exist and talk amongst themselves.

Thank you though.

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