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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
PhilSwagielka · 27/06/2021 15:16

The argument is that self-ID is more important than anything else because you have to be able to define what a woman/girl is before arguing about women's rights. Which is all very well but to say that it's the only/most important issue affecting women, and the only issue we should care about, is ignorant. The Daily Mail, incidentally, is not 'gender critical'. Far from it.

Also what @phoenixrosehere said, and it's what makes PETA's comparison of the meat industry to slavery so offensive.

Avaynia · 27/06/2021 16:32

I simply don’t get the argument that you can’t talk about women’s issues without bringing up trans issues. Admittedly I’m not ‘gender critical’ so that obviously skews my point of view in a different direction. I can understand some of the concerns, but the line between reasonable concern and froth was crossed a long time ago, in my opinion. Let’s say white women get what they want with self-id. What problems does that solve? Do women suddenly stop dying in childbirth? Are women no longer being murdered by their male partners? Does sex trafficking stop? Do we suddenly have equal wages? No. Women only spaces? Women only sports? Yes. So, sure, it can be relevant for some topics. But when trans issues have nothing to do with the cause of the problem, then I don’t see how it needs to be brought up when discussing said problem. All it does, as I’ve said, is highlight how all they care about is hating trans people. Otherwise they’d be able to have conversations about and care about other things.

And like phoenixrosehere said, we’ve been dehumanized forever. Despite her accomplishments, fidelity, and well-raised children Michelle Obama was called an ape in heels and a baby mama while Miss barely speaks English, had an anchor baby after working illegally doing lesbian porn photoshoots-all these things they say they hate-is called classy. White feminism can afford to throw their lot in with those overly conservative politicians because they’re not going to bear the brunt of the consequences. They know and rely on that fact. But those of us who will suffer those consequences are told to just suck it up and focus on the big picture. They're the ones being divisive by saying that feminism only cares about the desires of well-off white women instead of all of us. They don't care about us. We shouldn't care about them.

PasstheBucket89 · 03/07/2021 13:02

Im sorry not to have any thing to add in terms of racism, (im white) although i agree in everything you say, especially MM, bloody hell leave her alone!!!!

todays Feminism is extremely elitist! when you think of the women in Dagenham fighting for equal pay in the 60s,proper working class women, modern feminists really sneer at working class women now, those who don't fit the academic, unpolished don't have kids till late in life, career women, are looked down upon.

Disabilism! on a conversation about how men who come across as 'creepy' could potentially be on the spectrum, i understand its noones responsibility but as a mother of a DS with ASD, some of the responses were revolting Sad.

So i agree, many many issues sadly,

MrsMayJune · 23/07/2021 21:53

I know this is old but I found it very informative and I can see why black women would not (probably cannot) identify with the usual brand of feminism. I often wonder about the “me too” movement. It was started by a black woman but they way it was then portrayed in the media you would think that only white women faced sexual harassment. Only their voices were heard. I also often wonder why the usual brand of feminism does not vigorously champion the rights of poorer women and those burden by the weight of religious expectations and restrictions. Yet so much energy is invested in making wolf whistling a crime.

It’s sad that there is little or no solidarity.

EchoNan · 24/07/2021 15:30

I'm putting this link on here following a plop from some squatter on another thread objecting to what they called the "concept of intersectionality". However they felt it was ok to invade a black space to let us know. (the irony.)

All that had happened, was that someone helpfully, highlighted that there was an Audible for a Mikki Kendall book. Which I've ordered as a proper book ( ha ha) but not read yet. The discussion guide below looks of interest.
assets.penguinrandomhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/10202938/Hood-Feminism-Discussion-Guide-1.pdf

EchoNan · 24/07/2021 15:32

@MrsMayJune - yes! To your post.Flowers

1Saymynamesaymyname · 24/07/2021 15:49

Thanks, EchoNan

Eggfriedpower · 06/08/2021 13:29

This thread proves your point, OP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4315879-The-Real-Story-of-The-Central-Park-Karen

doadeer · 06/08/2021 14:05

An absolutely bonkers thread as posted below discussing "polite racists"
Think I've seen it all now.

Misbeehived · 06/08/2021 14:14

@Eggfriedpower FFS. Really horrified by this. The revisionism. The 2 sides to every story! Was it always like this? This goes way beyond the board not being intersectional. I’m shocked, hurt and angry. Disillusionment just doesn’t cover it.

EchoNan · 06/08/2021 14:34

It's a goady thread posted for a bunfight ime
Dont recognise the OP name as a regular on that Board. The covert racist joining in, plops on here for a rant, now and then.
I see you are new here too.Hello.Smile
Getting challenged though, from some of the regulars.
I'll leave them to it. Their board, their issue.

hshdbd · 18/08/2021 14:57

[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4324628-UK-academic-sues-university-after-losing-role-in-critical-race-theory-row]

More white women telling black women what to say and think in the name of "feminism".

EchoNan · 18/08/2021 15:35

Yeah, saw it. I'm getting the message from there, that certain white feminists have founded their own version of " critical race theory".
i.e. it's all about their favourite T subject.

Alongside what appears to be a competition amongst a couple of them to see how many times they can write racial slurs in inverted commas, 'cos "quoting".

( Insert massive eye roll here)

Ancientcistern · 18/08/2021 16:22

Apparently supporting any black rights organisation means you must also be a trans activist, which is the absolute worst thing anyone can ever be.

Bigtoebigtoe · 19/08/2021 13:26

They do seem to be happy to throw about racial slurs, where complaining about anyone who might use the word cis.

EchoNan · 19/08/2021 15:21

I posted on there for years, under another name. A very different place these days.

Racial slurs, and racists like Birchill excused. References to " brown people", snide, but within guidelines. Calling themselves "indigenous natives" as "working class white" uk on a thread. Not something I've seen in earlier years, more WWLM stuff each day ime. Intent on misusing " woke" to insult, but plopping onto a Safe Black space here to defend the Victoria "Karen" and so on...

At some point, hopefully, the more aware on there, might realise who is hijacking their board, because it's glaringly obvious to me.

It saddens me as a woman, but I'm not surprised. from a black perpective.

Drgnbllx · 23/08/2021 20:41

The racism on mn seems to be getting worse recently, or at least the racists are more open about it. I'm sick of it.

DeeCeeCherry · 26/08/2021 09:50

The CRT thread has it all. The N word (except they use the full word🙄), Black people are lazy, Black people are bad timekeepers etc boring stereotypes. I bet they're clacking their teeth going on about 'woke types' too.

Then you have the 'I'm White but pretending to be Black on MN so I can make sly digs about Black people' silly type that always pops up on those threads sounding on the verge of hysteria as they try so hard to incite race hate.

I skimmed it. It's too ludicrous to take on board. But, it is in Feminism and I remember their disgustingly racist commentary about Serena Williams when she was depicted as a negative caricature by an Australian journo

They hate Black Women.
They hate Trans women.

That's the main focus really.

I've no interest at all in their fight for Womens' rights as it doesn't include me; even if they got their way over Trans issues they'd still hate Black women so I won't lose any sleep over what they think or do.

sslij4 · 30/08/2021 12:52

Mumsnet has really got worse for racism over the past year or two I've noticed.

emuloc · 30/08/2021 14:30

The racism displayed on Mumsnet when Trayvon Martin was killed was so sad, and sickening to see. I think that is when I began to really see, and understand covert racism. This country is full of it. Mumsnet is full of it.

Drgnbllx · 01/09/2021 18:27

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4337991-An-algorithm-to-remove-Karen?msgid=110443255#110443255

They now want MN to automatically remove the word Karen. Not any of the actual racist terms that get thrown around on here. Karen.

emuloc · 01/09/2021 19:33

Unbelievable. I do not know why I bother with MN, what with the racism, and the constant vile attacks on Meghan Markle at every given opportunity.

PompomDahlia · 01/09/2021 23:24

Fgs… there are many people on MN who get more outraged by that term than by the racism it’s being used to describe. Totally lacking in the ability to think critically about historical context.

Anyway, I’m pleased to see this thread - I agree with so many of the sentiments. My heritage is a mix of black (middle class) and white working class, so I get the need for intersectional feminism.

Does anyone have any suggestions for communities - online or in real life - to engage more with feminist women of colour?

EchoNan · 02/09/2021 12:57

@PompomDahlia Are you in a trade union? An active BME section working with other sections, does wonders for my heart. and soul Grin

RedMarauder · 02/09/2021 16:08

@Drgnbllx I saw that thread and had to step away from the computer...

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