The Creme Egg Appreciation Society...memberships expire June 08

[debinaustria]

Good morning all you creme egg lovers ( and those weird ones amongst us who don't appreciate them)

Good luck for all the scans coming up this week, and next.

nettie, I'm afraid men are congenitally unable to find anything, even if painted in neon and placed down thier pants. Now living with 4 I have sadly accepted this fact. And as for rudeness. well, don't get me started but you have my sympathies.

cs, can't advise about best day. Both have advantages. I'd probably err towards the Wednesday, but depends eg are you likely to go away much at weekends? In which case having the Friday off might be good?

I'd probably take the Wednesday.

Re bf, can't remember exactly, but I'd say expressing after a couple of weeks should be fine, after all, your body produces more miljk to cover the amount used. Please bear in mind tho it might not be so easy. I've successfully bf 3 kids with no problems, but never found expressing very easy - I had ridiculously huge amounts of milk, I'm sure my body mistakenly thought I'd given birth to 10 or something. The midwives last time even gave a tablet to dry up some of my milk cos I had such stupidly huge tits and milk spraying like a deadly weapon all over. Poor ds had it pouring out of his nose, it was spraying into his mouth at such high pressure, but despite all that, I could still only every express maybe 1 or 2 oz if I was lucky. SOme poeple are more successful at this than others. But I think many poeple have expressing probs. Good luck with that.

With ds1 I exclusively bf him, Weaned around 6 months, but still only drank bm. But at 9 months he suddenly refused breast, but wouldn't take a bottle, cup, beaker... nothing. It was horrendous and he was so badly constipated. We ended up spoon feeding him water, syringing it in, only feeding him really watery food for weeks before he would accept liquid again from other than my breats, so for ds2 & 3, we did introduce a bottle early and gave them 1 a day just to be sure we never had to go through that again, so I agree, getting baby used to a bottle as well is a good thing. Most of the time I was able to give ebm, but I did also occasionally give some formula, either if I had no ebm, or also to be sure there would be no problems accepting that in emergencies too, and it worked well and all 3 bf bwn 9 - 12 months, when they all self weaned, overnight, just like thier brother before.

That caused my poor breasts some confusion, I can tell you. ouch.

Hi ladies. What a lot of messages!

China, re four days a week. I think it's really good to think this through now though. From the baby's perspective, he or she will get accustomed to anything.

IMO, a young baby might find the Wednesday easiest, but an older child would probably prefer the Friday as would probably get used to the fact that you have a wodge of nursery / childminder / daddy days and a wodge of Mummy days. It might be confusing to chop and change.

From a work perspective, IME, Wednesday is not a good idea. You have to leave things half done, and other people have to pick things up and it's a bit of a pain. People are accustomed to mums taking Fridays off and can work round it more easily. It depends on whether you think you can tie things up on a Wednesday. I certainly couldnt'!

Must go as DS is trying to put a key into the DVD player.

nettiehay your dp sounds like me, I can never find anything. He was so wrong to shout and swear at you though!

CS, I tired expressing with both children and could never get more than a couple of ounces at a time if I was lucky. I thought guidelines where to try expressing after 6 weeks as then your milk supply is established but this time round I am going to start trying earlier. With the girls my boobs leaked alot in the morning for the first few weeks and after that I didn't need breastpads as I never leaked again, so I will try during those leaky mornings. DD1 had a bottle of formula at night from 6 weeks and had no problems taking it, dd2 on the other hand wouldn't take a bottle until about 9 months old and then only with water in it, I don't think she ever had a bottle of milk.

I made DP feel the baby moving last night and he admitted that he really doesn't like feeling it, it's just to weird for him and he's glad it's not inside him. At least he was honest and I know he will love the baby when it's born.

Thanks for your thoughts on both so far.

Just to clarify re the Wednesday/ Friday question. I set my own agenda at work as am in a pretty senior position (ooo, get me) so would not be leaving things for other people to do - most of my workload is created by my own ideas/ initiatives rather than being tasked to do stuff. For me the sole issue is what will be best for LO.

nettie my dh's pet peeve in not answering the phone and i have had many a barking message left for me. 'why do you have a bleeping phone if you never answer it??!', etc. i've learned to ignore him and he gets over it quickly. he also can't find his arse with both hands which is my pet peeve!

cs i'm no expert (think you're thinking of someone else who i can't think of either) but i will say that you should wait until the baby is very used to the breast and then buy bottles with nipple-like, um, nipples. sometimes bottle feeding is a lot less work so if you get a lazy baby (as with ds) they won't want to breastfeed anymore because the bottle is easier.

as for expressing - i couldn't do it either until i went to see my sister (i swear the woman is super-mum, she comes by it so naturally. she's almost 6 years younger than me too!) and she showed me how to massage down in circles as you pump and low and behold 4-5oz every time!

Thanks all for your comments - I think the reason I am so p*ed off is because I call him numerous times each day and he doesn't answer and I don't leave abusive messages for him! I have calmed down a bit now (thanks to a rant with a female colleague about the inadequacies of men!) so will be calm with him if he does eventually phone me back (still waiting!).

Ah, yes. Think it might be calebsmum who is the BF counsellor - will check back through the (v long) thread.
Nettiehay - glad you're feeling calmer.

nettie - lol at the phone incident. Men!

deb -how you doing, I think your post said not 100%? I'm a bit the same... Had some pains since last night (think they're just stretching, ligament pains and nothing to worry about) but my bump felt really heavy and uncomfortable so didn't sleep well. Can wait for today to be over...

CS - I'm hoping to work 4 days a week but hope to take Mondays off. This works well for me because my annual entitlement includes an allowance for bank/public holidays. So instead of having (full time) 21 days hols plus 9 bank holidays I get 30 days. So I can work (and usually do) most bank holidays and save my hols for when it suits me. However, my DH's office closes on bank holidays so by having Monday's off we can have nice extra 'family' days without me having to use a day's holiday to take, e.g. Easter Monday off. (Does that make sense). If bank hols seperate/office closed on bank hols it wouldn't work quite the same. Anyway, not one of your options but I thought I would throw it in!

nettie - grrr, I am fuming for you! I bet you just think 'If I didn't have to do everything around the house then you'd know where your f*cking clothes were!!!!' There was no need to speak to you like that at all and I think you were right to tell him that. Men, eh?

Chinasurprise, you can express milk from the first day, I may have to if my babies go into special care. You can even express the colustrum which comes before the milk. All my twin books say as soon as the babies are born, if they cannot BF then I can express.

I am also hoping to express enough each day so that DH can give the babies their last feed of the day and I can sleep!! I think it will be good for him to do the feed/change thing on his own as well. It's not good to get into a situation where he has no idea how to look after the babies by himself. So I will just disappear and leave him to to it!

I don't have direct experience of the childcare question but my friend used to do Mon Wed Fri at work so that she never had more than a day away from her baby, but now she does tue wed thur and says it is miles better to have that block of time. If it was me I'd have a mon or fri off so you had a three-day weekend.

ChinaSurprise, I went back to work pt at first with DS but worked 5 days a week, 6 hours a day so that DS didn't have as long a day in nursery. That was ideal for him, however it meant paying for a full-day of nursery when we were only using 2/3rds of it. As for W/F, I don't think it would make a difference to your LO. My son does get tired out by the end of the week, so that would be an advantage for the W off, but then the Friday is nicer for family outings etc. I would definitely take friday as it's easier from a work perspective for me, I think having Wednesdays off would throw my work-mindset!

I'm planning to go back part time (30 hours a week, over 5 mornings) this time too, and maybe stay that way! Two kids in nursery mean that my salary starts to not look so impressive. (But I would never get a job in my field again if I was a SAHM so I'm not stopping work.)

Expressing sucks. I was rotten at it at first, but when I went back to work (DS 6 months old) I was expressing every afternoon and would get 100-120mL to send with him the next day. Since he was already on food, that was enough to tide him through the morning. My secret was the breastfeed from one breast and pump from the other, tricking my body into making milk!

ktpie, I have an anterior placenta too and felt the movements late. By now (23w) though I'm feeling movements more regularly and my DH has felt the baby too, although that might have been more luck than anything! It's not often I get that big a kick.

Oh CS -forgot about your expressing query... Everything I've read has said its probably easier to start expressing once that successful 'bf established' which is 'normally' 3-6 weeks. I guess because everyone has different experiences there's no hard and fast rules.

I was also thinking that I would be quite keen to express so DH could help out with feeding. Someone on another post did say though that early on expressing is just one more thing to worry about and it might be better to involve DH in other ways.

I'm thinking for me might be best not to plan it too much and see how things go when the time comes?

Dramaqueen - thanks, I'm feeling OK, just got a cold and my bump, like yours, is feeling uncomfy and heavy, had lots of stretching pains yesterday,then all the movements in the bath.

China - I had a little luck expressing, (I'll try the circular movements that some has recommended) last 2 times, but with ds2 he wouldn't take a bottle/cup/beaker when I went back to work at 6 months so the poor CM fed him from a teaspoon. Luckily I worked 5 mornings not whole days. I think I left it too long before trying the bottle. so I aim to try earlier this time but will leave baby a few weeks to settle down to bfeeding.

And I think I'd go for the Friday off it it was me, weekends away etc..

Rather than expressing to let DH give a bottle, what about making him in charge of baby baths? honestly their hands are bigger anyways so I felt safer with my DH in charge there! I didn't give DS a bath myself until he was 3 months old.

I know what you meed AH - and I think DH will love doing the baths. But I don't want to be the only one feeding LO if I can help it. I suspect I'll do the night feeding, as it's easier to just roll over than to trudge downstairs and sort out a bottle, but I'd like him to do a day feed or two asap as I think it will create a stronger bond earlier (although this is just my theory). Plus it's important to me that LO is used to dad feeding her because I'll be going back to work at 6 months and then it will be down to him during the day.

Some books say more than one bottle a day can cause nipple confusion so it may be best to get LO happy with the breast for a couple of weeks and then try him on a bottle.

But then if he gets too used to the breast he might not take a bottle! You can't win!

There are certain teats you can get that are more like nipples apparently so they might be best. I think it is definitely nice to let DH give a bottle each day (if you can get the milk out which I know lots of women have difficulty with - but then others can express milk like a cow!)

Thanks Aberdeen, it's reassuring to hear your experience, I'm nearly 21 weeks so a couple of weeks behind you. I think it is movements I am starting to feel, just got to wait for them to get a bit stronger I guess!
There is so much to think about with feeding etc as a first timer I haven't got a clue what any of it will be like and there seem to be loads of things which I keep reading about pros and cons of and end up deciding that I will have to wait and see what suits us at the time!

I've breastfed all of mine but hated expressing. I did it a bit with DS1 but not at all with DS2 or DD. With DS2 I had thrush in my milk ducts. With DD I decided that as DH was unlikely ever to feed her, there was no point in putting myself through the nuisance of expressing.

He's quite keen this time on me expressing so that he can be more involved. I'm a bit cynical about it but I'll give it a go, if only for the sake of marital harmony. But I'm not looking forward to it. Last time I did it I could only express from one side and I found it very uncomfortable. So any advice would be welcome.

DS1 is having his birthday sleepover tonight, so I have my own children plus 3 other 8 year old boys. DD's sleep is horrendous at the moment so I am very tired. I'm hoping all the boys wear DD out! I am so used to lots of little boys around, so I'm still a bit freaked out at the thought of having 2 girls. We won't be a mainly-boy household any more.

We've got a date for DS1's 1st Communion and it is a week after my due date I keep having dreams about having contractions during hte Mass . And I'll need to find an outfit that will be suitable for either 41 weeks pregnant or 1 week post-natal - leaky boobs and kangaroo pouch!

Hello all- have had a really crap crap day that is the result of locksmiths who don't turn up, useless b*stard estate agents and escaping dogs. Thank God it's Friday!

Yes, NH, I used to be flosspot! Have been following you for so long, I'm surprised yo don't report me for stalking! Am also carrying Clomid baby and very jealous of your double act, since we were secretly hoping we'd get them too! But do have 6 months supply of drugs (had just refilled prescription when I found out- the same day as you I seem to recall!) so am ready for next time!

CS-I second NH- taking Mon or Fri would give you a four day week and three day weekend. I work 4 days now and it's fab!

Re: BF/bottle, in my experience a materniry nurse, you can express from the beginning, and in many ways it's easier to start then, since your body gets used to producing the milk from early on. That having been said most mums find t easier to express once they've got the hang of bfing. I would also say that introducing abottle from the earliest stage possible means the baby doesn't really know the difference between the two, and this can be useful later down the line. You do need to be careful though, as bottles are less work for babies, they find them easier to drink from and therefore prefer them to breast. I think that one, possibly two a day is perfect, especially the last feed because then you get to bed at a reasonable hour and pack in a few hours sleep before the middle-of-the-night feed hell starts, and DH appreciates how hard it is to look after a baby all day. i am keen for DH to do the last feed (I can usually guarantee he'll be home by 10.30pm! That's lawyers for you!) so that he feels involved, and so that I get decent sleep.

Have I said too much- trying to reassert myself as sensible, knowledgable mum-to-be rather than nympho-hair obssessed slut!

Hey floss/makecakes!! No I didn't realise you were stalking me . I had some time away from MN after I found out I was PG cos I couldn't bear it if I'd got into these antenatal groups again and then lost my babies. Then I have been so tired that I haven't had time to log on much (cos work have given me a sofa to sleep on so I have been napping during the day) So I forgot you were my pal from TTC after MC.

I am feeling pretty much full of energy now which is why you have heard so much from me recently.

Good BF/bottle advice by the way. It is very difficult to know what to do for the best. I think you have to trust your instincts and thank your lucky stars if you have a helpful mum or can afford a maternity nurse.

Is your hubby a lawyer too? What does he do? Mine works as a solicitor in crime in Liverpool - and instructs Rolf's barrister DH!!

Rolf, I told my DH last night that your DH was a proceeds of crime barrister who he instructs, and he said "perhaps it is steven..." Is that right????

NH- glad you have found your energy....must be hard carrying twins! A lady in my yoga class just delivered twins at 41 weeks weighing 7lbs 6 and 7lbs 3...very impressive!!!

Dh is a barrister, but works in the chancery world, so unlikely to come across your DH, or Rolf's. He does get to go to Liverpool quite a lot though!

I'm quite envious of your job- really enjoyed working on the student rag at uni then got pulled in the childcare direction. (Years of experience once they arive, but none at actually carrying/giving birth) I fiddle abot writing for my blog and have several outlines for novels, like most of the nation, but doubt it will ever come to anything.

How are you feeling Deb?

Make cakes - my DH generally does chancery work too. He just sort of fell into proceeds of crime so does both!

NH - don't want to post his name here but no, it's not Steven. It begins with S though. Does your DH's begin with P?

Debs hope your feeling better soon

I expressed though wasnt very good from just one breast that was badly damaged from a couple of days as I couldnt bare the pain, It was quite good cause I managed to make it work round that being the 3am feed which DH took over from I usually had to express to stop engorgement so why the hell waste it.

Ernest I think she said it was 2.1 at my 16weeks check which was fine she took more blood yesterday so will find out monday, Im so tired and feel quite breathless plus the red of my eyes are actually milky yellow. She is a funny MW not haha but said well you wont be aloud a home birth if you dont get this sorted(well hello why do you think im here)
Hope you DS is feeling better and your DH so you can give him grief.

Netty I think I would go home and shred the item of clothing he was looking for what an awful thing to do to you.

hurrah, its the weekend! I'm away to put my feet up, get my DH to fetch me creme eggs by the bucketload and do nothing till tomorrow!

Have a good friday night everyone .