to find it really sad when people wish their DC away

[shakeshakeit]

With people literally counting every hour until they go back to school and they don't have to deal with them anymore. I find that really sad to read, yes children fight and are hard work but surely you knew that when you had them? Do people not enjoy spending time with the children and being able to do what they want rather than stuck in a rota every day? Some people can't have children, some people have lost children - do these individials give a moments though about others feelings when they plaster all over their facebook "kids are a nightmare, cant wait until they are back in school" etc every day of the holidays moan moan about the children. Are people not AWARE of what children are like when they got pregnant? And if not then if they are such a nightmare aparently then why after one have more - and in the case of my facebook example have 5. I have friends who have had IVF and adopted - they appreciate time with their children much more, perhaps because they realise what its like to be blessed to have children, even if they are bloody hard work - its part of the package.

Has anybody had any contact from shakeit?? Anybody noticed her on another thread?

Deemented - as the person who reported this thread (or one of them) can I just tell you that you are entirely wrong in your assumptions about my motivation for asking for the thread to be moved.

The op does not deserve to have people telling her she is BU because they have not read the whole thread, or even her second post.

Posters like me who have unending sympathy/empathy for the bereaved do not deserve to have posters like you ranting about our heartlessness.

MNHQ could obviously see some sense in what I and others were saying, otherwise they would not have moved the thread.

bibbitybobbityhat it's ok. I consider myself duly told

Hope the OP does reach out for support on here , there are many lovely mners who can understand what she is going through and many who can completely understand what her op was about.
Surely death of any person makes us all hug our loved ones a little closer.
I think the 'why did she put it here posts' a little crass tbh , maybe she didn't really think about where she put her post or how much info she included in her op , she was just displaying raw grief that does make many people uncomfortable.

When your child dies you get angry. When we are angry we do things that do not always seem logical or sensible to other people.

I do not believe that this was an AIBU by stealth at all. I think that the OP was fucking angry and needed to express it. Why should she hide away in the bereavement ghetto?

Sometimes I want to stand on top of my fucking car and scream at everyone that goes past with a smile on their face 'How DARE you smile you bastards!!!!!'

Not nice, not sensible, not logical but so what?

Better that I keep my embarrassing grief in private though eh? Or keep it nicely sectioned off on 'special' forums and threads.

I do not think the OP was attention seeking in the way that AIBU by stealth threads are. I imagine that she had something that had to come out and she did that on an angry thread - AIBU.

Riven I lived with the knowledge that my DD was going to die for some time. I know how hard it is and how important it is to keep some semblance of a normal life (whatever that is). I forced myself to leave DD alone sometimes,to let her go to school when she could manage it, to do the shopping etc. Even though I never knew how much longer we had her for. You need to do what you need to do and never feel guilty for it x

Why the face Deemented? Why are you being so obtuse about this? I would have thought an apology for misinterpreting your fellow posters motives would be more in order.

Chegirl - sorry, but it was an AIBU by stealth because the op does not saying in her op that she lost a child.

And if it had remained in AIBU then she would have had a succession of people coming on and telling her she was being a twat or a troll or self righteous or a plain right royal pita because they would only have read the op because this is what happens all the time on Mumsnet.

Which was not nice for her.

No, she does not need to be "hidden away in bereavement" but, because the op does not make it clear that this is a thread about bereavement in the op, then this is where MNHQ have decided her needs will be better served.

Surely this is obvious?

So, bibbitybobbityhat, you give all the information you could ever wish for in your op, when you start a thread. You never add to it further on?

I stand by what i said earlier - if OP had wanted this to be in bereavement, she would have put it in here in the first place. She had every right to post it in AIBU, and IMO it should still be in there. Not hidden away here to make certain posters more comfortable.

And if you're waiting for an apology from me, then you'd best make yourself comfy - it'll be a long wait.

Actually, reading back again through this thread, I see that my concern for the op is misguided and perhaps she actually wanted people to sneer and make fun of her - and then be pulled up for being so crass and thoughtless and thus learn something about bereavement along the way.

So, my apologies, I am obviously clueless on this subject and should have stayed away.

No, I do not agree. Maybe OP wasnt thinking straight? Maybe she just blurted out her feelings without thinking too much about the details and how her OP might appear?

I think this is far more likely than some sort of plan to make people feel uncomfortable.

I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I did not for one moment ever think that the op had a "plan to make people feel uncomfortable".

"But hey... some people felt uncomfortable, and we musn't upset them, must we?

There's a reason that people have the option of hiding threads. I suggest some posters learn how to use that function rather then running off to whinge to MNHQ that a bereaved parent has offended their sensibilities."

I take real offence at that Deemented, I asked for the thread to be deleted (I do think it is silly to just move it), because if the OP had started an AIBU thread in which she stated that the reason why she felt the way she did was because she had lost a child, then she would have had very different responses. I thought it was horrible for her to have to read the flippant comments that were being made, and unfair to those making the comments to then have them thrown back in their face because they hadn't read the whole thread.

Bibbity - thats what aibu by steath is though isnt it? Thats what I take it as. I get as pissed off as the next person when someone drip feeds information on AIBU in order to cause a ruckus. Thats why I dont think this was the case with this OP.

'a plan to make people feel uncomfortable' is my definition of AIBU by stealth and I did not mean to infer otherwise. It is not something you have said/posted.

Ok chegirl I understand. But to me AIBU by stealth just means that not all pertinent information is given in the op. Not that the original poster has an agenda behind it. That's just our differing understanding of Mumsnet shorthand isn't it.

Grief is a really strange animal, it can lie dormant for a while and then come right back to bite you on the bum

Sometimes when it does come crashing it back you dont recognise it as grief as such- you just know you are in a really dark place and no-one in the world understands you.

It is completely possible the op posted this because she was in this dark place. She didnt want to be molly coddled and told how sorry everyone was .. she just wanted to be angry at the world- and she wanted the world to know she was angry at it. As someone who has lost their child I feel its ok to feel angry at the world. A few paragraphs on a public forum are far preferable to some other outlets for anger

And if the op wanted to share this anger with a wider audience than those of us in bereavement.. she should have been allowed to

disclaimer I know this is not the same as losing a child.

When I had a miscarriage at 4.5 months I was fucking angry for a while. I had a strong urge to kick pregnant women in the stomach for a good few days. If I had posted 'AIBU to want to kick pregnant women in the stomach?' I would have got a load of abuse. I would have been expressing my anger but really, what good would it have done me to hear that I was a loon? The OP had the right to express her feelings wherever and however she wanted, but with the way she did it, how on earth could the responses have been helpful for her? I was truly gutted that she would have read what I posted before reading her other posts. I then felt totally stymied as to the right thing to say. Yes, that might be my issue, but it was there nonetheless and lots of people felt it. Honestly, what good could have come from that thread, with more and more people posting how unreasonable and out of order the OP was without reading the rest?

I honestly didn't suggest the thread was deleted to spare my, or anyone else's feelings, apart from the OP's. Maybe that wasn't my place but I really couldn't, and can't see how it was going to help her in the least.

I think that the whole point of the original op was that if it was in the bereavement section it would have been ignored. I see that since it has been moved to bereavement it has largely been ignored. I think that she must have been feeling awful to have posted such a thread and welcomed the slating that she knew that she was going to get, but I think that she thought that was better than being ignored. I hope you are feeling ok and my thoughts are with you.

as one who asked for the thread to be moved because some of the responses to the OP were harsh considering her later reveal, I should add that I think she probably was right to post it in AIBU. She got a response, a lot of responses, which may have been what she wanted.

But some of them were unpleasant under the circs., which can't have been nice for her to read. Of course lots of people apologised once they knew, but still, those first posts were there.

BUT - as the thread went on, it got a bit silly that this kept happening - so many people don't read a whole thread, especially once it's got past 3 or 4 pages.

I asked for it to be moved somewhere more appropriate - it could have gone in chat afaiwc, but MNHQ chose to move it to bereavement. They wouldn't have done so if they didn't think it was better off out of AIBU.

I don't at all think that bereaved parents should be swept under the carpet to make sure that everyone else feels comfortable about it - one of my best friends lost her baby at term, it is impossible to know what to say, but at least say something and keep on saying something - am so for those when people stopped speaking to them because they didn't know what to say (although not knowing can cause the most fatuous comments, like those that Dee had re. losing her 1st twin - but they were likely well-intentioned comments borne out of not knowing what else to say)

Guess what MNetters? We are debating the OP's words....we are arguing amongst ourselves but our only thought should be how is Shakeit? I haven't been able to get her out of my mind. As I mentioned earlier today Deemented is a strong minded woman who has gone through bereavement and is, somehow, surviving. She is outspoken but also very comical.

We should all shut up and stop debating and try to help Shakeit.

i asked mn hq to delete my posts. because, imo they were not rude or insensitive when the thread was in AIBU but I wouldn't have posted on the thread had it been in bereavemnet.
IMO it should not have been moved.

I agree frasersmummy I think things like this sometimes serve a purpose.

I don't presume to say if this is what OP feels but certainly when DD was stillborn I wanted to go on every thread practically and post "You fucking bitch/lazy cow, you don't know how lucky you are." All the better if I was misunderstood and flamed for it. When something awful happens people are so damn nice to you that sometimes it means you feel you can't get angry - number of times I found myself politely consoling other people because they were upset by my loss was very hard. Sometimes you just want to shout and abuse people a little and you can't because they're being kind to you. Not saying that's the right thing to do, but it's certainly an emotion I've experienced as part of the grieving process.

X-posted massively. Will try to read the rest.

'And if the op wanted to share this anger with a wider audience than those of us in bereavement.. she should have been allowed to'

Of course but she should have said 'I hate it when people wish their children away because my child is no longer here'
If I said to poeple on threads who were complaining about chatter or running away that they had no right to complain I'd be slapped down. If I explained my dd will never do those things people would say, yes, thats terrible, but we are allowed our problems too, however trivial it looks from where you are standing.

'we are allowed our problems too, however trivial it looks from where you are standing. '

Yup.

I get the argument that posting this in AIBU gets it more attention and gives the OP a chance to have a ruck that may make her feel better. Well great. But I am not sure that it's fair to do that. And whilst I admit that its not 'fair' to lose a child, we are not here as Aunt Sallies to get sucker punched for no genuine reason at all. Perhaps we need a 'fuck the world I am sooo angry' topic. Hell why not?