Beyond the distant star, I wish upon tonight to see you smile, If only for a while, to know you're there.

[shabbapinkfrog]

Our thread to honour and remember our precious children who sadly are not 'physically' here xxxxx

I've always gone out with smokers although I've never really smoked (not since I was 16 anyway). I don't like it but I must be attracted to the bad side too! In all seriousness, I am glad DH has given up.

Its not a great habit - well done to your DH for giving up.

Checking it to see we are all ok.

Seen TW fairly recently, but has anyone seen ppm at all since the start of October and previous kick off?

DH smoked until we moved intogether and I told him there would be no smoking in our house. Within 2 weeks he was sick of having to go and stand by the fence. He did really well and just went "cold turkey" - he obviously had that blip the other week - but I'm so pleased he doesn't smoke anymore!

PPM posted yesterday on Facebook. She seems well and happy. Have messaged her to let her know you were asking about her Caz xx

Thanks Shab Glad to hear she sounds ok :)

Just a quick hello to everyone, especially Louise - sorry you are here but welcome. I've missed all the recent fuss but hope that those of you who read any of it aren't too hurt by the idiot(s). I sometimes find myself wondering if there is a parallel universe somewhere where another Heliantha is at home with all her boys, completely ignorant of what could have been...

Hello all
I am still here , just having a few wobbles but feeling stronger now . I will have a read back xxx

Thanks for your welcome girls XX

Hi everyone, nice to hear from you TW, take care of yourself x

I was wondering about PPM, glad she's ok.

good to hear from you tw :) sorry to hear you've been wobbly. xxx

DH has had a bad day today. He is very rarely like this around me. :( Our friends visited this afternoon with their 16 month old DD. I know DH finds it very difficult, she is so delightful and just reminds him of everything we're going to miss out on with Belle. It bothers me too, but doesn't seem to affect me in the same way newborns do. Its always going to be this hard isnt it? Because however many years its been, the next stage we're missing out on will always be there.

Oh Caz, I'm sorry that your DH has had a bad day. We went to see our friend on the way back from lunch today, her little boy is one tomorrow. I was fine and held him and didn't really think too much but when I saw Dh playing with him it hurt, we should have a little boy here with us. We're never going to have a first birthday party for Malachy are we?

I still haven't really come into contact with any newborns (other than my colleague but he was 6 weeks and huge!) - I still couldn't hold him though.

I feel quite teary and its shit. I'm terrified to think too much about this pregnancy, I just want everything to be ok.

Mini - so many hugs to you. ((())) I can imagine exactly how you're feeling because I know I'll be the same way too. Its terrifying that it is something we have no control over and all we can do it have faith. Get on to your consultant again tomorrow again - I'm sure you'll feel a teeny bit better for a little while after a scan.

Today I've actually felt quite 'broody' - not in the same way I was before Belle, but a desire to get pregnant. I hope it happens quickly for us like it did last time. Quite impaitent to come off the pill if I'm honest now. But need to finish the pack and do it properly.

DH has made my day by buying me a dress I've been lusting after. In the sale so yay! I didn't have it before because it was too expensive and I felt guilty. It was acutally nice to be excited about something normal too. But now I feel quite guilty.... www.coast-stores.com/RUTHIE-DUCHESS-SATIN-DRESS/All-Sale/coast/fcp-product/2143407398

sigh

I've just been silly. SANDS is great but there is too much information, too many poor people who've lost so much on there. Yes there is plenty of women who've lose a little baby and then gone on to have another healthy and screaming. But there are also the women who've lost 2, 3, 4, 5. How do you keep going? I know too much about what can go wrong now.

I've read it and now I feel sick. Of course the thought of "what if it happens again" has crossed my mind plenty of times before, but after reading tonight I'm so scared. I don't think I would survive if I had anymore babies in heaven. I don't think I could plan my babies funeral again and hand my baby over. My keeping it together is starting to fail rapidly.

Why us? Being pregnant with Anabelle was the best time of my life, and its never going to be that way again is it. The joy of pregnancy has been robbed from us. I've got no control, I couldn't keep Belle safe or alive. What if I can't do it? What if I let my next beautiful little one down too?

I know "whats ifs" are no good. I just wish someone could promise us that next time it will all be ok. Leap of faith, please God.

I was on such a guilty high earlier after buying my dress too.

Oh Caz, you didn't let Belle down at all. I know i can say that til i'm blue in the face, but you won't believe it just yet, will you?

As for the 'What if it happens again?' Well... harsh as it sounds, i guess thats the chance you have to take. You need to see if your desire for another baby is stronger then your fear, and if it is, then you have your answer.

We all know that there are no guarentees in this life - we've learnt this the hard way. But this time, if you do get pregnant again, at least you know that you will be monitored much more closely next time.

If it's any consolation, i was a nervous bloody wreck when i found out i was pregnant after having the boys. I set myself little goals and celebrated every day that i was another day pregnant and that nothing had gone wrong.

Then my last pregnancy with my youngest was much easier then with dd, if that makes sense - i felt much more relaxed as i knew how looked after i'd be, and i wasn't half as anxious.

I hope you can find some peace, Caz.

Love the dress, btw.

Morning girls xx

Morning all xx

Caz I hope you are feeling a bit stronger today , as you say it is such a huge leap of faith to try for another baby . I was so anxious when I got pregnant after Harry died and I still have my mad moments now when one of them are ill . But every bit of worry and heartache is worth the joy they have brought back into our lives .

Great dress by the way

Hi all.

Was going to go into work on time today but just couldn't face it, plus I felt sick last night and this morning so think I'll stick with my reduced hours for a week or 2 longer.

CAZ - You didn't let Belle down but I understand why you feeli like this. I don't use the SANDS forum, I find the monthly meetings useful but the website was too much. Granted its been a couple of months since I looked at it but I found it distressing. I know it is very helpful for a lot of people so I'm not knocking it, it just isn't for me.

Love the dress, tis gorgeous!

Caz - I don't think the worry ever goes, but it's more than matched by the joy. I lost the 'innocence' of pregnancy when DS2 was diagnosed with his heart condition antenatally, but it made me treasure my subsequent pregnancies more, iyswim? I got pregnant quite quickly after DS3 died, but had a mmc & it took a while before I had a successful pregnancy. Each time, though, it meant that we had something to look forward to, something to hold onto. I don't know whether this helps, & I'm sorry if it's too much like the ladies at SANDs :(, but I wanted to let you know that, as Dee said, it is possible to face the risk

Mini - it sounds like staying on your reduced hours is a good idea. I think we all expect too much of ourselves at times. Have a gentle day

Caz you didn't let Belle down. You have loved her since you knew she existed and I am certain that, like all of us, if there was anything you could have done to save your baby, you would have. I feel guilty too, like my body failed Bobbie, it's a normal feeling but it's not true.

One of the saddest and shittiest things about what has happened to so many of us, is that it has completely destroyed our innocence about pregnancy. We all now know that there are no guarantees, no safe zone and that does ruin future pregnancies. We'll all be so hesitant about telling anyone, so frightened before scans, so worried every day and driven by fear in so many of our choices, haunted by the past experience. But we've got to hold on to the fact that every pregnancy is far more likely to go to term and produce a healthy baby than end in tradgedy, - even in that really dodgy 1st trimester.

It's hard to believe because we all tend to let our experiences have more weight than the statistics. When I was pregnant I basically thought we were home and dry after the 12 week scan. I knew that statistically there was a very small chance of loss after that, by 16 weeks the chance is about 1%, so 99% chance of everything being fine. Of course I thought 99 is practically 100 so of course my baby will be fine... Having been in that tiny minority once now, I know that 1% is significant. I think that's why I'm so nervous about everything now. I'm scared everytime DH drives somewhere because I know that there's a small chance he'll be in a crash, and now I know that the small chance means it happens to someone, and it could be me again.

This probably isn't helping, I'm sorry. What I'm trying to say I suppose is that it's completely natural to be worried sick about everything and especially future babies, but it is so so unlikely to happen again and hopefully that can give you hope? I think dee is right - it's a case of weighing up between desire for a second child and fear and seeing which is the greater.

You are a great mummy, from every post your love for Belle comes straight through. You didn't let her down x

Well I got myself in such a state in the end last night I ended up being ill.

Dee its not harsh - its just the reality. The fear won't ever go away will it, it'll just be biting the bullet. I am wondering now if I'm ready to ttc soon after the state of me last night, but on the other hand I don't think I'll ever be 'ready'. and as TW the worry will be worth it. dee - setting little goals sounds like a really sensible idea, I think I'm going to do that. goal one, coming off the pill and not freak out like last night!

mini I'm starting to think I should stay away from the website too, it is hugely distressing, I know far to much now. If the fear of my own circumstances wasn't enough I've gone and read about everyone elses too. I'm so silly really.

and I know deep down there was nothing I could've done to save Belle, but its a huge feeling of guilt I'm finding very hard to shift.

Have had a gross morning so far. woke up to find DH had trampled cat poo everywhere (Fiz either missed her tray or kicked it out and he's not noticed and stood in it!) and have had to clean that up, and then when I'd finished that she was sick all over the window and window sill! I've been put of eating anything so far this morning, especially as I was still feeling a little bit off anyway after last night!!

x-posted with split and heli - thanks ladies. :) you're both spot on with the innocence of pregnancy being taken away from us.

I find it so reassuring when we say the same thing - means that either I'm not really going mad or I've got friends to join in the insanity

Cats are vile aren't they??!

Last week one of ours brought us the back half of a mouse. Lovely.

I will retch my way through cleaning up cat sick, but bits of animal really pushes it

Aww split - that is pretty gross! Fiz is a housecat, so I avoid mice and birds and other nastiness like that!

I'm actually a bit over crazy for my cat. She's always been my baby. Bought home at 6 weeks old after her mother had died, so as far as she was concerned humans were her mother as she'd been hand reared. She took to only sleeping if she was on me, needing lots of reassurance etc, That never changed (apart from the sleeping busniess!) and she is still really kitten like and clingy with me despite being 3 and a half! Infact she's sat right next to me now, peering at the laptop!

I never get cross with her! Haha, instead of being cross that she'd missed/kicked out her tray, I rang and told DH off for making the mess! Haha! Same with the sick, I just clean it up and give her cuddles! Oh God I've ruined her haven't I! Queen of our castle and all that!!

But she really has been such a huge help since Belle. A distraction and comfort...

(Realising what a crazy cat lady I now sound!!)

I'm very fond of them really. I was in bits this time last year when we lost one of ours . He only went to the vets for a routine tooth op (extractions and cleaning, because he had tooth decay that meant he wasn't really eating) but he reacted badly to the anaesthetic. He fitted when he was coming round, never really regained consciousness and just slipped away after about 2 days on a drip. I blamed myself for that too, as we had chosen for him to have treatment and I felt responsible.

Your's sounds ever so sweet. They do have a way of wrapping your around their little fingers don't they?

Ours have all been rescue cats with their own sob stories. One of them was a farm cat brought to an animal shelter with kittens. She was feral and completely terrified of people. When we brought her home we didn't see her for about 3 months as she lived under the sofa, and DH would spend hours lying on the floor poking cat biscuits towards her. Now she sits on your laptop/chest/sleeping head/generally in the most inconvenient place and has a purr that drowns out the TV!

The other arrived at the vets as a stray after a car knocked him down and despite advertising, no owner came forward. He lived in the sick cat cage there for about 5 weeks and then we got him . Gorgeous soppy affectionate ginger and white boy.

I know what you mean about them comforting. I find having something to cuddle and care for really helps.