Beyond the distant star, I wish upon tonight to see you smile, If only for a while, to know you're there.

[shabbapinkfrog]

Our thread to honour and remember our precious children who sadly are not 'physically' here xxxxx

mini hope it goes well at the geneticist.

thanks tangle. Im going on one last publicity mission later on so better get printing loads of flyers lol.

Caz, Thanks for your message i have looked at that site.
I struggle with Christmas as Jack died on the 22nd December. The song that reminds me of Jack is Stay Another Day by E17. It was No 1 when he was born in 1994. The worst thing is not knowing where i will hear it first each year. Two years ago i was in a shop and heard it and just stopped dead. Last year it came on one of the music channels on the tv so that wasnt so bad!

Not doing very well today. It was exactly 2 weeks ago today (at 1.30) that we had the scan where we were told Bobbie had died. I have no idea where those two weeks have gone, it feels like yesterday that we were in hospital holding our baby. It's like the world has just carried on, the clocks go round, but my life has stopped.

I can't seem to do anything. I've only just managed a cup of tea and some cereal and I'm not dressed/showered or anything. I feel so guilty wasting all these days, but it's not like I know what I'd do with myself if I did get up. The house is filthy but I just don't see the point in doing anything about it. I'm frightened being alone again, and just keep crying without even having any sort of "trigger" or thought. I'm scared of the world and don't trust it not to do something else terrible.

I also really upset myself late last night by going back to my antenatal thread to see what was happening. I knew it was a stupid thing to do, and I just felt so empty and useless and jealous and so bloody ANGRY reading about everyone still being in the middle of healthy pregnancies, getting good scans, feeling their babies move. I never felt mine

And then I felt self pityingly hard done by and miserable that there were no more messages left there for me (even though I told them I was going to leave for a bit). I'm being irrational. I WANT things to work out for everyone else, I don't want them to feel stuck with my misery and like they can't talk about the next stages and their good news. But I HATE that everything is carrying on without me and Bobbie being part of it. I hate that my baby is in a little white casket in a grave with letters and kisses from me, and not squirming inside me. It's all so so wrong.

Spilt - two weeks after my Matty and Gareth died I had to keep thinking 'breathe in....and out....and in....and out.' If I walked anywhere my head would scream 'Left, Right, Left, Right.'

I was drinking and putting myself into a dark oblivion. I didn't want to live but I definitely didn't want to die. I wanted to run away a million miles but I knew I had to stay and 'face the music.'

Most people had no idea what to say to me and, to be honest, I didn't want them to speak to me.

My house was a dirty hovel and I couldn't have cared less. As long as I had my alcohol and My DS1 was OK I had no other goals.

I ate anything that I had in the house. Food I hated....food that had gone way past its sell by date food, food, food - hurry up and shovel it in your big gob Shabbs - perhaps it will fill a hole. Resulting in a weight gain of 4 stone in 6 months.

I have just read your posts and stared into space trying to find the right words....but, I know, there are no right words. You will be OK - that sounds so patronising and simple but I know, because I have walked 28 years in your shoes, you will be. You have to keep talking about your precious child, you have to scream, to laugh, to dance, to cry....I wish I had a tablet I could give you to take away this mental and physical agony but I haven't. All I can offer is my listening ear and my shoulder to cry on.

Never forget, the way you are feeling is 'normal', totally and utterly normal....you are a newly bereaved Mummy xxxxxx

Oh Shabba, the pain you describe is so heart wrenching. 28 years?? You are an amazing woman. I can't imagine getting through the next 28 days but I know one day I'll wake up and I will have done.

Thank you so so much for saying I am a newly bereaved Mummy, well for saying I am a Mummy really. DH and I are struggling to know whether we are really parents now. We think we are, and it's lovely when someone else affirms that.

Feeling a lot calmer now. I panicked and cried and hyperventilated my way up to 1.30 as all the fear and memories of the scan day built up again and I re-lived lying there with the lady leaning over, touching my arm and saying "I'm afraid it's bad news...." Strangely once the time passed I've calmed down a huge amount and feel more peaceful.

Starting on the chocolate hobnobs again now xx

No, not amazing at all.....Just didn't want to let my boys down by giving up on it all....but, believe me, there were many times I wanted to.

You and your DH are, and always will be, your precious childs Mummy and Daddy.

spilt Of course you are a mummy. My son died 6 months ago and I was very panicky at first, I think it is the shock and you just have to wait for it to pass.

I have just had a horrible time at work. It was nearly time to go home I was counting my money and out of nowhere I thought 'I am never going to see hime again' I was overwhelmed with sadness. I kept getting my cashing up wrong and just burst into tears, I wouldn't let anyone help me and just carried on till I got it right. If I came away without finishing I don't think I could have gone back and I don't want that. I feel a bit better now I am home. I am sure tomorrow will be better but it was like a truck hitting me. Think I will have some biscuits aswell!!!! xx

Mini hope today has gone well.

split - I just wanted to assure you that all those feelings are normal. Even now I have days where I cannot find it in me to get dressed and I spend most of the day just staring into space not really knowing what to do. But the distance between lowest of the low day does get a little bit further apart. I know 2 weeks after Belle died I didn't think I'd ever be any better, and I still have days where I feel like that now. But you will be ok - mainly my lovely because what other choice do we have? When I first joined here I remember Shab telling me to just survive the days - that is all you have to do for now. Don't concentrate on anything else. I've learnt not to fight the bad days - they are going to come, and they will come for the rest of our lives I expect - but they won't be this regular forever.

Jealously and anger and hating that time just carries on when you're world has shattered and broken - yes I feel like that much of the time too. I bloody hate the world. Its not fair.

I know what you mean about the antenatal thread. I actually strangely get quite a lot of comfort from mine. (They're now all postnatal though) I still visit and post now. Yes it sometimes upsets me but those ladies were such a huge part of my journey and were so kind when Belle died (they clubbed together and bought her a rose and sent money to SANDS in her memory) that I still check in every now and again.

I'm having a difficult day too. Its the 21st today and my daughter should be 4 months old. Will the 21st always feel so painful?

I can hardly believe that 4 months on I'm trying to reassure another new Mummy that things get better when I still have such wobbly days myself. You've made me realise how far I've already come, small steps, but they small steps forward. There's a long way to go, its so huge, I've no idea quite how we live this forever, but we will. (((split))) xxx

Hi ladies

We went to the genetecist and as I thought they were unable to tell us anything. Nothing is going to be persued as the wasn't really anything that stood out but I will be offered more scans during this pregnancy. The geneticist said that a stillbirth at 30 weeks is unusual without a definite reason, the only obvious thing was the dilation of both kidneys however this on its own is not life threatening just soemthing to be monitored.

Although in a way its reassuring I still feel anxious. I feel anxious for the baby I'm carrying now (I know its not a baby yet but I loathe the word embryo!) and I feel like I must have let Malachy down in some way. I know I should focus on the positives but I can't help but worry.

Spilt - I'm not as good with words as some of the other posters here (which is ironic as I'm an English teacher - I can spot emjambement in a poem a mile off though!) but how you are feeling is completely normal. In the two weeks between giving birth and burying Malachy all I did was drink tea, play scrabble with DH and sleep. The two days between fiding out Malachy had died and giving birth I was terrified of sleeping and couldn't but afterwards it was all I wanted to do. I just wanted to not think and be away from it all. I couldn't cook, I couldn't go out and I didn't want to see anyone. Don't expect too much from yourself, looking after yourself (however that is) is your priority.

Obviously it should be enjambement not emjambement!

lavandes you poor thing. It's terrifying how the tears and the sudden shocks seem to come out of nowhere and you feel totally exposed and out of control of yourself and your emotions. Hope the biscuits and sitting down where it's "safe" helped you feel a bit calmer.

Mini I don't know my enjambements from my emjambements so no worries there! I can totally understand that you are hugely anxious about your pregnancy, I'm very afraid about the worry and stress and fear that I will feel next time. My heart goes out to you

Caz I'm glad I've helped you see how well you are doing and sorry today has been hard for you as well.

Thanks all for your kind words and reassurances that I'm only going through the normal motions...
I think I was finding it extra hard because my sick note for work was only for 2 weeks (expires tomorrow) and I thought that must mean that they thought I'd be doing better by now. I've got it extended (not sure for how long) and need to pick that up tomorrow and send it to work. I guess that gives me a reason to get up at least.

Mini - Haha I've never even used the word enjambement or have any idea what it means!

and YES, your baby is a baby. Maybe not for the medical terminology of correctnes - but I also loathe the word embryo, and foetus. To me, Belle was my baby from the moment of conception, I loved her then already, and it will be the same with #2.

split - I'm so sorry if it came across like I was pleased to be doing better by looking at your heartache - I really was just trying to reassure that even in a relitavely short time it won't feel quite like it does for you now. xxx and as for going back to work, I just feel really horrible for you - it is so hugely unfair that you come into sick leave instead of maternity leave. Obviously I don't know your situation, but don't rush back. You need to take things slowly, I just cannot emphasis enough small steps. I'm going back November 3rd and by then I'll have been off 5 months, and I really do not feel like I would've felt properly ready any sooner. I hope your work are being understanding and kind with you.

Hi Spiltthetea...dont think we have spoken before

My little boy was stillborn at 39.5 weeks and 6.5 years later I remember clearly the scan where we found out Fraser had died.

You would think giving birth and all the indignities that comes with that would be what sticks with me but no its that bloody scan..

After we had seen their was no heartbeat they removed the wand thing from my tummy bit left it on and there was just like a little semi circl at the top of the screen and nothing else.. I remember I couldnt keep my eyes off it. .. dont know whart i was expecting to happen but clearly nothing did

Caz I used to feel like that on the 15th of every month but it does pass eventually.

In the early days you just have do what you can to get through each hour. then it becomes half a day then a day etc. Till one day you realise you havent cried in 48 hours

and then the guilt about moving on kicks in

not quite sure what the point of that ramble was .. but hey

Caz don't apologise, it didn't come across like that at all! (When I said I'm glad, I meant it in a genuine way, not a sarky one ). It can be very awkward trying to phrase things!

I think the work things is actually stressing me a lot. I'm full time, so it's a 5 day week hell to return to in due course. And with needing sick notes it's a case of always being no more than 1-2 weeks from potentially a GP saying "you've had enough time, get back to work" and just the thought of being back in the office makes me got hot and cold. I can't even begin to imagine driving there, walking in, talking to anyone, doing anything... At least maternity leave means you can take your time and forget about work/return dates for a long long while. In fairness to work I think they will be fine about it, but I feel guilty

Frasersmummy hi
Interesting you say that. For me, the birth was not horrific or frightening or anything. The scan was horrific and maybe that's why it's stuck?
So sorry to hear about your loss of little Fraser.
My baby died shortly before the 20 week scan and was born on Saturday 9th Oct 2010, named Bobbie.

I didn't think you were being sarky! I just suddenly wondered if it had come across wrong. Yes you're right it is sometimes hard to phrase things.

I'm sure the Dr will keep you signed off until you feel ready. And stop feeling guilty about work, it is just a job - they will manage. Concentrate on you and DH. xx

FM - The scan also sticks with me a lot too. Those words. :(

Whenever I see a donor card it makes my heart jump but now I can smile about it.

I know I have told lots of the ladies on here about my Matty and his donor card but for anybody who has recently joined us........

Matty: Mam, Ive got a weawwy, weawwy, small wiwwy (Matt couldn't pronounce L's and R's very well and they came out as W's)

Me: Your willy will grow with you love, dont worry about stuff like that.

Matty: Wight, Im going to get one of those donor cards and sign it and when they start doing wiwwy transpwants Im having one!!'

From the age of about 4 he carried his donor card. He even managed to write his name on it. He was very proud of it.

After his accident he was pronounced DOA at A & E. I asked the nurse could they use any of his organs....she looked at me with sheer terror in her eyes because she was shocked I had asked. I explained to look in his jeans pocket and find his card....there it was - all scruffy and folded up. Because of his injuries he couldn't donate any organs but he donated both his corneas. I love my sons.

The sight of one of those cards would make me have a panic attack at one time - now they make me grin from ear to ear and I imagine him with a massive wiwwy

I have no idea why I just posted that essay....other than to say - as time goes on the edges of our shock and grief do soften...I promise you they do.

All i can remember about the scan is looking at DH and he was crying. I didn't, I just felt numb. We were sent to a little room and after about ten minutes I started crying, it was like it took a while to register, it was almost like I was watching somebody else.

Spilt - please don't rush back to work. Malachy died 5 weeks before the end of term and then it was the sumeer holidays so I was off for 3 months. I went back full time and very quickly realised it was too much ( I also had lots of advice from the fab ladies here!) so I have since been on a staggered return (Start late somedays, finish earlier others). I'm on half term this week and am going to try full time next week(or at least teach the 2 lessons I'm currently missing) but tbh I shall see how I am. So make sure you do everything at your speed and at what's right for you x

spilt I agree with Caz you must not worry about work yet, it is too soon you must just concentrate on you and your husband, take your time everyone is different and only you will know when your are ready.

mini try to stay calm xx

I agree with you Everlong. Im so thrilled you are back with us..I think I speak for all of us when I say we will help you and support you as much as possible. xxx

Oh my word Everlong - just checked on our list - how can 2 years have passed by? Does it go between feeling like 2 minutes and 200 years? Oli would be very proud of you for 'getting on with it.' xxx