AIBU to not force DD5 to use other child's preferred pronouns?

[Craziesareoutinfullforce]

So today I picked up DD5 from school and her teacher told me that my DD had asked a little boy in the playground why he was wearing a dress. He said it's because he is a girl, and my DD, confused, disputed this and said "but you are a boy", which has of course upset him and now my DD is in trouble. Apparently he went to the teacher and she pulled my DD aside and said what she said was unkind and she needs to respect how other people describe themselves.

My DD has ASD and has only recently become verbal, school are well aware of this and she has an EHCP outlining her communication difficulties, with her mental age being approx 3 years old (in terms of where she is with development). My argument was that she has additional needs and has zero concept of transgenderism so she was not to know, and was also in no way unkind as she was asking a genuine question and not trying to be nasty. I imagine any 5 year old would be confused by this? I think if you asked a NT 5yo to use preferred pronouns they likely would, but still don't feel anybody should be forced into doing this or face punishment.

I did also say to the teacher that this is not something that is encouraged at home and we have never spoken about it. She told me that they are an inclusive school and everybody is to be accepted, and that from now on DD must use his preferred pronouns and call this boy 'she/her', she had said this to my DD at the time and she got upset because "that's not right" (my DDs words). I told her that I will not be enforcing this and will contact the LA regarding the matter should they pursue it in future, given that they are point blank disregarding DD's ND and EHCP, essentially.

Aibu here? I expect to get hate for this, and I'm really not trying to encourage any phobia regarding trans people, it is just not something I accept or feel comfortable with or encourage. I would never attack someone for being this way etc., but just feel nobody should be forced into calling a boy a girl and vice versa when they are clearly not. It feels really unfair and frankly bizarre that my 5 year old with ND is being penalised for calling a boy a boy. I don't think I need to take this any further but unsure what to do if anything happens regarding this in future? I did mention above I would contact LA but would they take the same stance as the school? I have emailed the headteacher about it but he has not yet replied. Please help, feeling stuck and idk if I'm in the wrong or not.

Yes Op

point is… the parents bought him the dress for his school uniform

rather than him picking up a sequin sparkly dress and saying he fancies wearing it for the day

and that fact is terrifying!

At this age it could be that he likes to dress like his sister does. However if he goes down the route of changing his name to be known as a girl that is different. School have to respect his choices. Dd did not do anything wrong I think most children of her age would be confused by this. I think the teacher was in a difficult position and should have handled it better.

Do you know the parents? Is the child on same year as your son?

Erm OK? Is it a code? Sorry I'm not following, and now I'm all curious 🤣

Honestly ive been thinking if this becomes a recurring incident should I just move her, but it makes me sad because shes so settled there and loves her school and its not fair on her. But the way they have treated her here has really upset and concerned me honestly. I then thought what if there is a trans kid at new school. I just dont know just cant believe this is happening really. Feels like a non-issue being made into a massive issue it's just irritating and disappointing

I would say my dd will just use the child’s name and encourage that that is easy for dd to understand, just use their name .

So it's fine for adults to bully children if they and their family have a different belief system??

A teacher is allowed to coerce a child into lying?

Blimey, I thought my catholic schooling was bad.

Also at 279. The school or college should also make sure that children and their families are aware that while the school or college will appropriately sanction any cases of bullying or harassment, and take a strong stand against bullying, the school or college must also be conscious of the rights of pupils and staff in relation to their religion or belief.

I would point out that similarly they must be conscious of capacity of disabled pupils and not treat their understanding of the situation as inherently unreasonable or unkind.

It would be missing the chance to correct what the lying teacher told her.

Being able to differentiate our sexes is a hard wired part of being a human and we have it in common with animals. It is very disorientating to lie to a child about this and very, very wrong.

Your attitude is child bashing.

Child says 'I don't want to be Thomas any more, I want to be Tom'. No problem.

Asking others to pretend that an individual is the opposite to their real sex is a very different matter. Just like all the other mammals, it's hard-wired into humans to be able to recognise who's male and who's female from very early in life. Asking us to use the wrong pronouns is like asking us to pretend that someone's not subject to gravity or the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

It’s an issue that you’ll come across again in a different school.
If she is otherwise happy, speak to the teacher.

The school (and the boys parents) are being unreasonable. He’s free to wear a dress, dresses can be worn by anyone, they are not just for girls, just like trousers are not just for boys. But, he is still a boy, and no one should be telling your child she has to lie. He’s a boy, a boy in a dress, not a girl.

Transphobia includes misgendering and deadnaming. OP has now passed her own transphobia on to her child.
Kids are the most accepting people. It’s really not hard to explain that all people are different, boys can look like girls and girls can look like boys. Some people may have been born a boy but feel in their soul that they are a girl and vice versa and it’s kind to accept them for who they are. Anything else is bullying.

Ask this question anywhere but transphobic Mumsnet and you’ll get a massively different response!

What about the welfare of OP’s daughter. Given her ASD she might find this extremely difficult to process. Telling her she is unkind is way too much. To her she is just pointing out a fact and then being sanctioned for it. Where is the inclusivity regarding her. This is the thing regarding identity politics as it tries to pretend that by enforcing the rights of trans people for example it will not infringe on anyone else’s rights. Except that’s just not true.

If you don't believe in gender ideology and think the idea that humans can change sex is ridiculous then 'transphobia' is just another made up word.

We are allowed NOT to believe in this rubbish - and our children are allowed not be forced to believe by activist school teachers.

You just say that it’s one of those things in life that you just have to tow the line about but doesn’t mean that you agree with it.

Yes I have been thinking If I was the teacher what would I do here, but obviously dont know any of the safeguarding training etc so cant really say. I just feel she has almost completely sided with this boy for some reason (likely on safeguarding grounds as other PPs have pointed out and shared useful information for), but cant help but feel its from a more politically-correct perspective than anything else? Its just the way she compeltely dismissed what I said about DDs needs and her EHCP, etc. All responses were just "i appreciate that, but" and it was just like, for me, there is no but. She cannot force herself to understand all of this, and frankly I feel that surely the little boy himself cannot fully understand all of this, either. Just feels like a lose-lose situation

School do not have to respect his choices. There is statutory guidance that they must follow, which includes the statement:

“… the first step when considering a child’s request for support with social transition will be to consider what is in the best interests of the child and other children, and a decision relating to social transition may not be the same as a child’s wishes.”

Yes, most of us agree. Then people started losing their jobs for sharing their views or not conforming to the rules on pronoun sign off emails,
The entire office has to wear a rainbow flag.
People labelled with transphobia, hate speech, June becoming rainbow month.
We are not free to disagree with this, there are consequences even for children.

Trans is not a protected characteristic. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. Protected characteristics protects you from discrimination, they do
not compel the speech of others.

It's so weird how its only on the trans threads that posters stand up for ND kids. Any other issue, you'd have replies about how the ND kid needs to learn to be flexible and learn social rules.

I don't believe any of this happened. Especially the bit where a reception teacher tells a newly verbal, autistic 5 year old who is 2 years behind developmentally that she needs to "respect how other people describe themselves." Or that your DD "must" do anything or will be punished if she doesn't. (To be honest, I'm quite surprised a newly verbal autistic child is consistent and correct with pronouns at all, but there we are.) There's also a difference between explaining to an autistic child that what they have said is unkind or will be perceived as such (something they may need to hear) and saying they are unkind.

But if it did happen - the school should, of course, attempt to balance the needs of both children here, which will involve supporting the autistic child through a situation she finds challenging with, for example, social stories. But no one is asking your DD to believe this child is a girl; they are supporting her to address the child in the way they want to be addressed. This is an important social skill - you yourself acknowledge that even if you don't believe in a trans woman is really she, you'd be respectful. I have an autistic child and this is what I would be explaining to them.

What if the child had worn a dress and used a girl's name from day one? Would you have had the same problem?

How many times are women going to have to fight this in court? Being GC is also a protected belief, we can’t change sex. I would be far more concerned about a 5 year old boy being sent to school in a dress. Your daughter is absolutely correct, he is a boy, stick to your guns and keep telling your daughter she’s quite right. Fight it all the way.

She told me that they are an inclusive school and everybody is to be accepted, and that from now on DD must use his preferred pronouns and call this boy 'she/her', she had said this to my DD at the time and she got upset because "that's not right" (my DDs words).

I think you could point out to the teacher (and the school more generally) that if they are an inclusive school, they will include accommodations for your DD's ASD.

But also, transing a 5 tear old should be grounds for intervention re parental abuse.

It isn't transphobia to use correct sex pronouns.
The school should not be telling a child to use gender based pronouns instead of normal use sex based ones.
The school needs to read and follow the new guidance.

Yes, and if anyone, including OP is brave enough to stand up to this imposed quasi-religion that has homophobic and misogynistic undertones, then we should.