AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

[Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar]

I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

As a childminder can only legally have 3 children under 5 in their care I can't imagine why it would be a problem. I had 3 under 4s as a parent.

I'd say that childminders need them as much as parents since they are also around small children all day.

I don’t think childminders are permitted to have many toddlers . Mothers however can have one every year so could potentially bring quite a few .

No it isn't, it indicates that the group is intended for families.
I set up and run our group for years, and I know others who also ran these groups.
For me, and everyone else I know, the intention was always to provide for families. Not people being paid to look after children as their job. Families.
It might seem mean spirited but it wasn't personal. Childminders were preventing us from doing what we wanted to do, and were preventing our intended audience from accessing us. So we banned them.

I went to such groups and didn’t socialise because I was hanging out with and watching my son. I didn’t go for myself at all, couldn’t think of anything I’d least like to do to be honest, I went for the kids and couldn’t have told you who else was their guardian-wise, couldn’t care less. It’s an odd thing to police in my mind.

That's... that's not quite how toddlers work.... 🙃

I also run a toddler group in a church, and we would never ban childminders because we are never at capacity, in a reasonably affluent area, and only a couple of childminders come, don’t dominate or upset anyone - it’s such a completely different situation from what you’re describing - so really does feel like it’s a case by case situation.

we have lots of parents looking for childminders and childcare, so having a few come to the session is good for everyone.

but it sounds like you’ve absolutely made the right call for your group

I guess if they are massively oversubscribed I understand prioritising parents with their kids over childminders. Our local one has plenty of space and everyone is welcome. Some of the childminders have become friends of mine just like the mums have, and actually in the early days with my first baby they were an invaluable source of reassurance and experience. Absolutely nothing phased them! I like that it's a space for everyone.

My childminder went to some. In fact she helped run some. The joy of using a childminder was that my child got to go out and about to different things, and on some of my days off I took her to the same ones. She was part of the local community, so I would have been sad if she couldn’t participate in local community things just because my childminder was taking her instead of me.

@Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar i can't speak for childminders at toddler groups but have seen plenty meeting up at soft play.
Almost without exception they are then sat round tables chatting away pretty much ignoring the children. On one occasion I saw a 2 year old take herself to the toilet without any notice being taken, she couldn't put her pants and trousers back on and came out like that. I obviously couldn't help her.
Many similar examples. So if the issue is childminders taking several children to playgroups and then ignoring them to socialise I see the problem.

Yes, but that's you. And that's fine. But I can tell you, from tears of experience, that many parents do go to these groups for themselves and that they are an absolute lifeline for some parents, especially nowadays with surestart centres gone, along with so many other local services

As a parent attending a group, wouldn’t bother me at all. Childminders need things to do with children as well, especially indoor things now the weather isn’t so nice. It’s good for the toddlers whether they’re with their parent or a child minder.

@Suchevilforebodings That’s not welcoming to all dc and rather nasty. In effect, dc through no fault of their own, are banned. Why pm earth can you not have all dc irrespective of who brings them? I worked 3 days a week and took dd to things when I could but she wax taken to one group by me from being a baby. Was she then to be banned because my nanny took her instead? It’s horrible to even think about it. And you had really really better hope
none of the child carers or children are black or disabled!

I think you’re being massively unreasonable - I’m on my last week of mat leave for the year (I’m emotional!), and gone to 1-2 groups every day for months now. The childminders at those groups have been AMAZING. Willing to talk, share their extensive knowledge, answer any question no matter how stupid (which really helped put my mind at ease for things like starting solids). And seeing the kids usually really well adjusted and thriving, despite not being with their mums anymore is helping with this next phase as I go back to work. Those groups are for everyone and if you want to ensure a place, book early!

Many of these groups are organised and run by childminders. The parents are transient in comparison,toddlerhood of their own children being over in a couple of years. The child minders are the mainstays of these groups and ensure they continue to happen.

Well my local group was a lifeline to me, and the only people who really talked to me were the lovely childminders. They were the welcoming ones, and the ones who showed me the ropes and made me feel like I belonged. I doubt I would have persevered if it was just ‘mums’.

I think it’s for the children, it’s a playgroup.

Yes but I was one of the people who this applies to, so personally I feel my opinion matters just as much as a parent who went for friends. And what difference does it make if they socialise with a childminder or another parent? Half the people at my local group were grandparents, it wouldn’t have helped me to make friends with any of them if I had gone to seek out new acquaintances.

And they were a lifeline for me, just not to make new friends. They were a lifeline in another way, as someone who suffered with poor mental health having small children. So please don’t come for me in such a rude way.

My regular group at a church has banned childminders, but set up an alternative session for just childminders, which they don't run in the same way as the regular group but basically allow the childminders the space and toys. I actually didn't mind when the childminders did attend because the 2 regulars were nice and gave good advice, but I can see that 6 children over 2 minders were essentially blocking 6 mums and babies from being able to attend. To have a separate group for the mindee children and adults to still get the social opportunities seems the best solution.

I have also attended a group, once and once only, which was almost entirely attended by childminders. That wasn't obvious from the advert I saw but unfortunately this bunch were very cliquey, saw me as a precious new mum and let their children run totally wild. I went to make friends for myself in a lonely mat leave but these women clearly didn't want to talk to me let alone establish friendships.

I’ve had 4 children and never been to a toddler group that was packed enough to send anyone away.

I think mum and baby groups are definitely more for the mums, but I disagree when it gets to toddlers - I think they then get a lot more out of a group.

Also in my experience most parents are back at work by the time their child is a toddler so it tends to be a range of grandparents etc bringing them. I wouldn’t see a problem with a childminder being there at all, and what if one of the toddlers they’re bringing is their own? Are grandparents not allowed? Where do you draw the line?

I’ve never been bothered about making friends in a group like this though so I do only go to things like this on an adhoc basis and purely for my toddler. When I’ve wanted to make friends with children a similar age I’ve successfully used Peanut to do so as you can check their profiles to make sure you have more in common than just a child of the same age.

The groups I took my children to had parents, grandparents, childminders and a foster mum there.

I enjoyed chatting to all of them and they all brought something to the group so I'm not really seeing the problem.

I’ve such a vivid memory of taking my first to a place like this when I was disabled with SPD and demented with PND, trying to make conversation with what I thought were other mums (young ones) but were nannies who weren’t interested in talking to a mum. It wouldn’t have mattered had there been a good mix or if they’d wanted to socialise with parents but they didn’t, and I was one of only two parents there, there were several professional child carers. These groups are for children, and it is best for children if their carers, especially their parents, aren’t isolated. Social opportunities for all those caring for little ones would be good.

It could be that a childminder actually can help some of the parents who need support, theyhavea broader experience if they've been childminding for several years. One of the ways in which the SureStart centres supported parents was by giving them access to conversations with other adults with children.

Hmm, this is tricky. I have been to groups where childminders and their charges made the group economically viable, plus they were engaged and present with the children.

I also had to leave a group where 5 childminders sat and chatted, ignored the children, took up the majority of availability and made it really unpleasant because all of the children they brought just ran riot. It left me and a couple if other mothers dealing with a toddler hoard.

It actually made me so nervous of childminders that I couldn't bring myself to use one. Even though I also encountered good ones. They were so awful!

The mum and baby groups I would agree with you, but I mean baby baby groups and you’d not see a childminder there anyway.

Toddler groups are a free for all and and I’m not convinced any adults are going there to make friends. As someone with a 2 year old and a nearly 1 year old who regularly attends toddler groups I can quite confidently say all of us parents are too busy chasing after our children to be making any lifelong friendships ourselves😂