AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

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I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

See I’m torn, a nanny yes I think should be able to go because it socialises the kid and gives them time to make bonds with the other nannies and families that she may need to interact with as the child grows.

But if it’s like a childminding business, or someone who takes multiple kids from different households, it’s a bit like they’re saving themselves from having to entertain the kids and are basically outsourcing their role IYCWIM

As a parent who uses a childminder I like that she goes to these groups as it's what I often do on my days with DD. I want DD to be out and about and socialising! Most of the groups you pay a small fee. Lots of the ones round me are under used as lots of people go back to work almost full time so grandparents and childminders very welcome.

YABU. When HV recommended parent toddler group to me, the benefits were mainly about DS. About opening up his world, playing with other children, new games, faces, helping his independence. I rarely had more than a passing conversation with a grown-up tbh, but actually some of the childminders that I did speak to had a lot of knowledge and experience that was invaluable to me as a first time mum. Childminders also have number limits, so its not as if they are turning up with dozens of children in tow.

It’s also quite hard to find decent childminders so it’s a good place to meet them.

Most Childminders are only allowed 3 young children, one of which might be their own. So are parents of three young kids not allowed either? They must also stay at home and the kids not allowed to meet or play with any other children

There were childminders at the groups I went to. Guess what, they were also people that I could talk to about parenting. In fact they knew more than most parents as they’d had to care for a wide range of kids with a wide range of needs. And they were great fun adult company!

Childminders can bring a wealth of experience. Also many of their toddlers would likely of been coming to the group with a parent prior to being brought by the childminder. Also childminders normally only have 1-2 toddlers at a time so it isn’t like they are bringing 10 toddlers and overcrowding.

I guess one childminder has upset one of the group leaders and they have spat their dummy out and decided to ban all childminders.

I used to be a childminder in the 90s. I used to take my own child and the child I was childminding to toddler groups, I used to run a toddler group myself. I do think YABU.

i stopped going to two different toddler groups when I had young ones, both of which were a lifeline for me getting out the house, because local child minders would all turn up with several kids and let them run riot while they gossiped with other childminders. my dds then got pushed, had toys taken offf them and ended up not enjoying themselves. This was not the case with parents/grandparents etc

I volunteer at one group and attend some others and there's no rules banning childminders. Mostly Mums attend with the odd Dad, a few Nana's and one Granddad. Granted there has always been enough space so hard decisions might be needed if too many people want to attend but the groups are for toddlers and whoever brings them. There's a local area Mums WhatsApp group and occasional coffee mornings for Mums but they also try to be as inclusive as possible.

You’d have a conniption at my son’s club, it’s a Family Club but on weekdays it’s mostly nannies letting their charges wander off while they disassociate/doomscroll/chat with other nannies. The parents of those children are basically paying a premium for their sprog to be ignored for hours on end, admittedly in upscale surroundings.

I don't know if this applies to your sort of groups, but sometimes you see childminders going to events meant for families, and people aren't keen on that for several reasons-they couldn't claim funding, as (understandably) the childminder wouldn't fill in their forms, because it was meant to be mum/dad/gran etc, the childminder would sometimes have a lot of kids, use up all their activities and it was meant to be about families having time together, not one childminder with quite a lot of kids. Yes, it's possible for one parent to have more three or more kids of the same age, but not that common, and if you've got a childminder at your groups with a lot of kids who isn't supervising them all properly, that's an issue.
Suppose it's up to who runs the group, but if it's set up for families not professionals, I see your point.

I think that's ridiculous. Granted my kids are grown up now so it's been years since I went to a parent and toddler group.
But the one I went to often had childminders. They are usually local women who have friends there, sometimes they would have their own children with them too.
Childminders provide a home away from home childcare experience. So why shouldn't this include parent and toddler groups, as well as story time at the library, entertainment at the shopping centre and all the other free stuff that goes on during the day for small children.

I have never known a church hall play group that lacked the space so that whoever wanted could go, that's why they are held there. Mums, dad's, grandparents, childminders...I think most people are happy to chat (except some of the dads).

They are primarily for toddlers, and provide a social aspect for their care givers. Childminders are often parents themselves, it has often been a business that is set up to earn money whilst also caregiving to your own children. They may not be the same age as yours but wealth of knowledge. Plus isn't it a good thing to know a few local childminders? I don't even know that many still doing it now anyway, they are hard to find.

If you are alone supervising under 5s I think adult interaction will break up the day (if you worked in a nursery there would be other staff).
If I had children that went to a childminder I'd be happy that they got to see other kids and have a change of scenery and different toys to play with. Most people do interact with the kids in their care in these environments.

If you struggle meeting other parents there are a few apps out there. It can feel tricky if you havent got a group as it feels like others have one (reality is a lot haven't, or it's not as close as it appears).

Bloody horrible IMO to exclude people.

There are in my area. One group at times closed the venue the group was held in for parties. In the parent and toddler time slot. Out of all the childminders who attended there was only one nice one.

I have mixed feelings on this and I think it really depends on the group.

We’re a military family. There is a playgroup near us that is army ran but welcomes civilians with open arms. They regularly get people to come to the group to talk about issues we’re having with military housing/mental health if deployed etc. it’s a fantastic resource.

Except for the fact that most of the time trying to prebook a space for a toddler group was near impossible as the childminders would book them all. Sometimes it would be me, one other mum and the rest were childminders. A new group was set up specifically for childminders to free up the spots for mums who needed the resources and none of the childminders ever showed up and it closed after 2 months.

There was similar at a group I went to where we used to live, although not a military ran playgroup, they often had people come in to give advise on mental health support, etc (we even had someone come in to help us get smear test appointments as our local GP stopped doing them for ages). And I feel groups offering these kinds of things should be reserved to parents, not childminders.

There’s another playgroup near us now that is much more of a just go, play, have a snack etc no sort of extra support like the other groups provided, where there are lots of childminders. While I have my own issues with these childminders (like not actually watching their kids, missing them hit their heads/vomit in the ball pit etc) I don’t think they should be banned. My daughter gets on really well with the childminders kids and is still friends with some now we’ve stopped going.

I think a typical playgroup shouldn’t ban them, but ones that are specifically catering to support mums such as in the examples above, I think it’s fair to reserve those for parents rather than childminders.

Edit to add: I also think if a group has repeated issues with childminders not properly supervising the kids they bring to the extent that I’ve seen, I’d say it’s reasonable to say no to having them as well. I’ve seen some amazing attentive childminders at groups but sadly the majority see it as a social and kids get hurt because of it. Toddler groups require supervision, whether you’re a mum or a childminder.

Childminders are isolated with children too OP

Aren't these groups called PARENT and toddler groups already?

I tend to agree. I’ve seen childminders in these types of spaces and they don’t really look after the kids irrespective of how many they have with them so you end up bearing that burden to an extent for them because the kids hang around the adults actually engaging. They also aren’t interested in new parents/they don’t share the same experience and have no interest in engaging. I’ve also seen them fishing for business going around telling anyone who listens that they are a childminder and they have xyz well behaved kid with them today.

the only thing is if there’s no competition for spaces there’s no real need to exclude anyone

That might be true in some case, but a childminder clocks off every day and has a different life to return to, whereas SAHPs are with their children most of the time.

I used to go to a big group which was in the main space of a church, so plenty of room and there were often quite a few childminders there. I actually liked that and found them to be full of reassurance and good advice and of course came with children for my toddler to play with. I still got all the things you mention out of the group. But if the group is being run primarily as parent and child and especially if space is limited, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. It does definitely change the vibe of a group a bit when it’s not just mums.

It's good for children to be around other children, especially in safe fun groups where they can get used to mixing and exploring while their safe-person (Parent/grandparent/childminder/aunt/whoever) is still available to them. Why should children miss out if their parents don't have the option to be away from work when the playgroup is on?

What about grandparents taking their grandchildren - would they be banned to? I have been to groups like this as a parent, a childminder and grandparent. They are a really valuable resource for all

This
I don’t see the issue myself