AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

[Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar]

I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

I'm confused by the logic in thread anyway. Childminders apparently shouldn't get to these groups because they are too busy talking to each other and not looking after their kids. Yet mums need these sessions to get emotional support from each other which would also indicate they are talking to other parents. So doing exactly what childminders are doing then in essence .

There's a lot of people on this thread who just want to cut their nose off to spite their face. The overwhelming majority of childminders are parents too. Surely if you're a struggling, isolated parent than making acquaintance with a childminder who is a parent plus has additional childcare experience is going to benefit you. Likewise speaking to an experienced grandparent.

Yes there will probably be arsehole childminders, but there's plenty of areshole parents who attend these things too and don't watch their kids!

Some of the ones I went to were set up and run by childminders for everyone - I very much appreciated them.

There were also some just for childminers as well.

There were often aunts and DGP there with kids of working parents - so wasn't odd for young kid to be there without parents but they were not there with huge numbers of older kids like some posters describe.

I suppose it depends on the set up and what's happening - there do seem to be fewer groups than whem my kids were little so maybe there are more capciaty issues now.

The two aren't even remotely comparable. I don't know on what planet you can compare a Muslim attending a Jewish event to a childminder attending a toddler group.

But just to clarify a person's religion is a protected characteristic under legislation meaning they can't be discriminated or subject to harrasment or victimisiation. Hence why religious groups can specify who attends their groups.

Neither parents or childminders fall under this group. Last time I checked childminders weren't commiting hate crimes against parents and vice versa. And both are presumably looking after young toddlers, hence who these groups are designed to benefit.

I'm a foster carer and if be very disappointed if I was banned from taking a toddler in my care to a parent and toddler group. Children in care do often get discriminated against in life but surely not as toddlers. A far more sensible rule could be one adult to up to 2 toddlers.

Yes there will probably be arsehole childminders, but there's plenty of areshole parents who attend these things too and don't watch their kids!

It’s a numbers thing. Most parents come with one child and maybe a baby. CM might come with 3/4.
There were triplets at one of my groups but mum was super strict with them.

Absolutely! I a was an au pair years ago and I found it easier to be good at my job if I was topped up with adult conversation and activities. It was really hard to spend a whole day alone with two toddlers! Even with my own daughter, I feel more active, engaged and positive when I’ve had some adult chat too.

I fully think childminders should be allowed at these groups, assuming they are able to keep an eyes on all of the children. Sadly, there are no childminders in our area (thanks Care Inspectorate for driving them out of business with their burdensome paperwork) but a childminder would have been my first choice exactly so that my cold could experience a more “family” feel of care and I think that includes going to playgroups, as that’s what I would do with her if I could.

No I do not

”get some adult conversation”
How ridiculous. Childminders are adults and are allowed to talk to parents.

Being a childminder is a profession.

It's not the same as being on maternity leave with a baby or a SAHM with a toddler

The overwhelming majority of childminders are parents too. And part of their "profession" includes playing a role in the development of young children including supporting with socialisation and age appropriate activities. All of which attending a toddler group falls into.

So you’d deprive children because of your contempt for working parents?

Totally unreasonable.

@starrynight009 You make it clear it’s an enrolment system and the latest enrolments go on a waiting list. Or you simply say it’s closed to further enrolments. Or do it on an age basis. Eg accept dc between certain birth dates. Everyone with room capacity issues works like this. Schools, clubs, everything. So if dc and parents and carers turn up and are on the wait list, or not on the list at all, it’s just no. You can operate this system pretty easily. This avoids discrimination and I really would not pick on carers. You have to remember that your prime focus is play for dc. Mums can meet in a coffee shop or look for another playgroup.

So they can’t improve their mental health by socialising with people at playgroups?

Do you feel the same if grandparents go?

@CantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircarSo you don’t think working mothers are isolated? You just don’t like them do you? They cannot go and you are banning their dc. It’s not inclusive and smacks of elitism. Only the well off SAHM can go! That’s a very poor message to send out. You are clearly prejudiced and only want nice mummies who stay at home.

I am a working mother.
I never disclosed my situation.

I am a working parent.

YABU.

Incredibly mean spirited to exclude childminders from toddler groups.

From my experience yanbu. I'm actually a little surprised that most people are voting the other way, although I wonder if that's down to different experiences. Where I am, this is a big issue because there are lots of small church hall playgroups, but they are almost all oversubscribed.

I also wonder if a lot of people posting have different views on childminders. In my area there's been a huge increase in childminders banding together to rent space which means they can offer what is essentially a nursery setting, whilst still labelling themselves childminders. It's not uncommon where I am to have groups taken over by a few childminders who work together bringing a whole group of children who already know each other and completely dominate the space. And a huge part of the appeal for the children isn't just the toys but the social interaction- spending time with other children. Surely children with childminders need this less because they're already in a setting where they're being socialised with other children.

One last thing is the lost community element. I'm in a city, and when parents or grandparents bring their children they are usually from that area and I think you often find the children all get to know each other and bond and then often end up at similar nurseries and then schools. It's nice. The children of childminders often come from out of area and so aren't part of that community and I've noticed it often creates a bit of a divide within the group itself.

@Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar So who took your dc to toddler groups? Or did you pay for full
time child care in a nursery? What groups were your dc excluded from? You aren’t presumably working full time now if you run these groups. Or are they a profit making venture for nice SAHMs only?

Are childminders not people, too? I mean you're paying them to watch your kids while you work and taking them to a playgroup would still be doing that. You can also talk to the childminders as they are usually also mothers, too. Idk what the issue with them being there would be, unless they're watching like a million kids at a time.

I didn't even notice there were childminders at the one I used to go to with my DC, until I chatted to one of them and she told me. She is now a good friend of mine and I am glad she was there, as no other mums there really gave me the time of day and were already in their little cliques; one of them even shaming me for bbreastfeeding "with young boys present" (go figure).

Why must people try and make everything so exclusive? What is the issue in talking to childminders? Surely there are other mum's there to talk to, as well. I understand the groups are for parents, too, but first and foremost they are for the children, so who takes them is ultimately irrelevant.

I don't run any groups. Not sure where you got that from.

I am working full time now.

When my DC were toddlers I had part time jobs and full time jobs. When I was working part time I took them to groups. A mix of childminders and nursery had them the rest of the time, same as when I was working full time.

My childminders never took them to parent and toddler groups as I've already explained.

It's funny really that you made a completely unfounded comment about me hating working mothers when your comments are practically dripping with disdain for SAHMs. I don't resent either.

I like that they go to playgroup. I paid a child minder to care for my child whilst I worked. I wanted them to mix with other kids and go out and about and do stuff I couldn't because I was working.

It also didn't bother me when childminders were there when I went to toddler groups on mat leave with my youngest.

@Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar I worked part time after DD1 but nanny took her to a couple of groups on the days I wasn’t around. I would have been upset if dd had been barred. After dd 2 I was a SAHM. I know they are well off and don’t need to work! I just don’t see why their dc are favoured. You said you are a working parent. You now say you are a mix of working fulL time and part time. It’s confusing. It’s just so much easier if you treat dc as equal. All deserving of a toddler group. Forget about whether some mums are more deserving than others as it’s divisive. It’s discriminating against dc who don’t deserve it.

Sorry but what are you talking about?

I said I now work full time.

I said that when my kids were toddlers (they are not any more) I had both full time jobs and part time jobs. So during the toddler years, I worked different jobs, one of which was full time, one of which was part time.

When I was working and the kids were toddlers they were looked after by a mix of nursery and childminders. Sometimes in the same day (I used my lunchbreak to move my DS from nursery to childminder one of the days because spaces were so limited)

I then said none of the childminders I used took my DC to any parent and toddler groups. I did that when I was part time working. When I was full time working this meant they didn't attend parent toddler groups at all.

I hope that is now clear

What I don't understand is the rest of your post. I'm not talking about who is more deserving than others. I don't think some kids deserve more or some parents are more superior and I think it's quite a bizarre conclusion to come to from what I've said.

I simply said that parent and toddler groups are aimed at parents and toddlers because they are for the benefit of parents and toddlers. If childminders are taking up those spaces then there are parents not benefitting. Therefore, to reach more of the intended audience, they should not include childminders.

This doesn't mean I don't treat children as equals. Of course they are equal. And many children who are with childminders may still go to toddler groups on days their parents are not working, so they are not missing out anyway.

And I don't run any groups. So I am not actively doing anything to anyone. Merely saying what I think.