AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

[Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar]

I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

OP, I’m a grandparent and looked after my grandkids for 2 days each week. I took them to a toddler group each week so they had chance to play and interact with other children. Would you exclude me too?

I can see both sides. We have a lovely childminder who comes to one of our groups. She only usually has one or two kids with her and she plays and interacts with them the whole time. There’s also another group we used to go to where lots of childminders used to go and just sit chatting and the kids ran riot.

I think with some of the smaller ones, especially those that run free via funding, parents/grandparents/carers should be prioritised when there’s a need.

My children went to a childminders from 9 months old and would go to around 3 toddler groups a week. Why should children whose parents work kids out on the socialisation and activities that groups provide? Childminder ratios are quite small and the ages can be varied so toddler groups assist with grouping children of similar ages.

Haha that's why the childminders should do the soft play. They are paid to endure that.

Why do the childminder need to go to a mother and toddler group for kids to interact. They can play alongside each other at the park or a chilnminders GP group

You talk about childminding being a commercial business as though they are making lots of money. Most are not and I imagine this is worse since the introduction of free hours. It's not a lucrative line of work at all and it's often chosen because it's something you can do in your home whilst caring for your own children.

Having passes to big attractions is all well.and good but you won't do that every day, it's a big day out and it's tiring. Playgroups are usually local, cheap and you see a friend or two in an environment that is safe. The toys are likely to be different than in their home too. It's volunteer led but not like it's a charity specifically for parents.

If you are talking a tiny room and more than a couple of childminders maybe I would see the issue in that specific circumstance if it reaches capacity, but you are often talking about people who are looking after their own kid and maybe one or two others. Most church halls and community centres are big and never reach capacity so who cares who attends.

There's a group that meets in the village hall. Set up by the local childminder and attended by anyone looking after children. Mums, dads, grandparents, childminders. All are welcome for coffee and support and adult conversation and most importantly for the children to socialise and play. Aren't these groups for everyone?

Wow can’t believe some of these posts. I’m a childminder who helps run one of these groups it’s probably one of the last not for profit groups in the area. We could easily make it a childminder only group but choose to have parents too. Otherwise we’d be letting down a part of the local community who just want to come in for a coffee and let their child play and join in the singing/ reading session for a quid rather than having to pay £5-10 elsewhere. Honestly I feel sad that some places are not welcoming to all children, no matter who brings them.

exactly, then the poor mum with quadruplets can’t come either! 😂

I used to go to a group like this that was heavily attended by childminders. It was annoying because the childminders clearly weren’t interested in socialising with the other parents, just chatted amongst themselves or stared at their phones. The children in their charge were mostly ignored and ran riot. I got the impression that they viewed it as an easy way to entertain the kids without making a mess of their own houses and getting a bit of time to themselves. Which, to be fair, is why most parents go to these things, but I remember thinking it’s not a form of childcare I’d want to be paying for!

Well then they can't go to a toddler group, can they?

Odd thing to get worked up about. Quite a few childminders came along to these groups when my kids were toddlers; nobody batted an eyelid and nobody lost any benefit from the sessions as a result. Tie yourself in knots about 'commercial' if you like but the upshot is a few more toddlers at a toddler group. That's good.

Jesus, a lot of SAH 'parents' have little else to think about if this is what bothers them.

I help run free (with voluntary donations) stay and play groups and I haven't read all of the responses but I will say that we run 5, most of them are never full up so no issues, everyone welcome. But we have one group which is always over capacity. We ask people to book on in advance....but so many just turn up. So we are facing an issue and saying no childminders in advance is one of the options which is being considered. The other is to lock the doors when we're at capacity or turn away people who haven't booked on....both of which feel far harsher for the poor children who have turned up expecting to come in.

So it may not be a decision due coming from the behaviour of childminders or wanting to keep it parents only. It could be a health and safety issue in regards to numbers. If you're letting in 3 childminders with 9 children, that could mean excluding 6 parents with 9 children. In our case, we still offer 4 other groups which childminders can attend.

We haven't implemented it and I am personally NOT in favour of it by the way. I want to stick to the booking system with first come first serve but, unfortunately, not all groups can afford an online booking system and, as we're finding, a lot of people ignore it anyway. There isn't an easy answer.

They're a good resource for childminders - it lets them have adult conversation too, lets children socialise with other toddlers, and it's affordable. I know childminders charge for looking after children, but why shouldn't they take advantage of cheaper child-focused resources just like parents do? There was always a childminder or two at the toddler groups I went to and it never bothered me.

Yanbu. I stopped attending my local toddler group purely because of the way the nannies/childminders behaved. They were there just to socialise with each other, actively hated the children that were there. They all sat in a huddle and made fun of people, ignored the charge they were with. God forbid if another toddler wandered up to them, they were snapped at and shooed away like an annoying puppy.

I did write a letter of complaint to the group in question but nothing changed. If they were kind reasonable people then I would have no issue with them. But a lot of them are a law onto themselves and don't appear to answer to anyone. Not a great advert for childcare.

I have no issue with childminders going in fact if my child was going to a childminder, this is exactly the sort of thing I'd be wanting a childminder to take my child too. It helps build skills with free play, exposure to different social environments and with socialisation too. And if I was a parent attending, I'd probably be find it useful to make acquaintances with a childminder!

@starrynight009 So you might be ok locking the door but worry about poor dc who cannot attend but don’t give a fig about a child minder’s dc who cannot attend? What’s the difference between the dc? I’d find a bigger venue or do enrolment. It’s the dc you should enrol! Not who brings them. How would you feel if the child minder had a disabled dc and you barred them? Is that legal?

I agree. The one I attend is getting more and more childminders with 4/5+ kids each, most of which are older, and the childminders just sit talking to each other while the kids run riot, pushing other children and snatching toys off little ones. I had to intervene yesterday when one little boy snatched a toy out of my baby's hand roughly, and I told him to share. He screamed NO in my face and ran off and kicked a toy at another kid. Childminder was oblivious.

Why would you not allow your child to go to it? If a child is at a childminder than that's because normally a parent is working. Why should children miss out on opportunities like this because the day falls on when you're at work.

Mine go to nursery and grandparents (who coincidentally took them to toddler groups etc) but if mine went to a childminder then this is exactly what I'd be expecting a childminder to do with them. Exposure to different social settings and to help with socialisation. I certainly would be very unimpressed if they were just in the childminders house all day every day.

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The OP explicitly states that grandparents should be excluded.

Its pretty basic that having supportive groups for parents is very key to help them support their children.
There can be other sessions where all children can attend, but I do agree that certain groups should be just for parents and the kids. The sessions I attended with child minders definitely had a different atmosphere.

Lots of childminders run sessions too or meet in the park. All of mine went to childminders, and that is what they did.

Given that only 4 - 5 sets of quadruplets are born each year, I suspect it’s more of a hypothetical/rhetorical question than real - but I totally take your point

It's not illegal to say no childminders. It is illegal to go over capacity from a health and safety point of view as it becomes, quite frankly, dangerous.

Is it the biggest hall in the area. And we run 4 other groups during the week which don’t have this issue.

Like I said, we have an enrollment/ booking system which most people use and don't turn up if they don’t get a space. But there's always a few that chance it...I'm talking parents and childminders. It's very hard for us to turn people away once they're inside the hall and they've let the children run off to play. Most people who run groups are mums, grandparents and volunteers, they aren't bouncers.

I personally don't agree with saying no to childminders, I hope it doesn't come to that as we have lovely childminders that come. But I was pointing out that, when there is a capacity issue and the group or charity need to address that, I can understand why that is one of the possibilities they consider.