AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

[Cantheowneroftheredcorsapleasemovetheircar]

I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

Also most near me actually have names: tea and toys, teddies, matts monkeys etc etc. none of them are called parent and toddlers as a description or as their actual name.

Most of the childminders I know have gone to these groups because they also have a toddler, as well as ones they're minding! There are ratios as to how many children under school age they can have, so it's hardly as if they are going to be there with 10 kids is it!
And whilst its a lifeline for some parents, it can be a lifeline to get to know local childminders for your own future childcare needs!!
Children benefit from socialising with other kids.
And generally these sessions are called Baby and Toddler groups NOT parents and toddlers. If adults are mentioned at all (unless targeting support at particular groups e.g dads, young mums etc) it will be parents and carers.
Do you want to exclude grandparents too?

In my day they were generally called either parent and toddler or Mum and baby group. Yes some did exclude fathers as there was a lot of breast feeding going on and discussions about body changes. I think the people who set groups up can put their own rules in for whatever reasons suit then. They are not in public spaces. The group has to pay to use the hall. I used to take my children to these all the time and made local friends this way. We had just moved into the area.
I don’t think people can criticise the rules of a group. They are always free to set up their own but most don’t want to put in the work they would rather moan.

As a grandparent we saw no need to take our grandchildren to these groups. By having our grandchildren one day a week we were providing them with a different experience anyway and usually took them somewhere like a park or zoo where they could run round and let off steam.

Surely if your child goes to a childminder then it is already having the experience of mixing with other children.

My experience has been that the childminers meet up at these groups so they can sit together and chat and ignore the kids they are paid to watch. I am sure there are many good childminders out there but the ones I have seen made me feel sick they were in charge of children and their poor parents thinking their kids were being looked after. One even sort of mocked a little boy who was crying to her childminder friends.

my 2yr old doesn’t go to nursery and is an only child. We take her to these groups so she can interact with other children. The more the merrier. I don’t think it matters who is bringing the children as long as they keep an eye on them

I don’t think you’re wrong op. Toddlers aren’t for the most part craving social interaction. And there are a bazillion places they can go to do that. The cosy village hall group is where tired, overwhelmed mothers go to find support and community amongst others in a similar place.

Childminders don’t watch their mindees as mych

I suspect they've had problems with either a whole group of childminders turning up with a lot of kids meaning there's no space for parents and kids or with childminders not keeping a close enough eye on the kids.

There used to be a childminder at the group we went to (she also had her own child there) and it was fine but I can imagine that if three or four childminders had turned up it would have changed the dynamics (e.g. the child to adult ratio would have been higher overall, the group might have become too busy).

It's even possible that a childminder might have been looking for possible customers, leading to awkward conversations.

I was always grateful when our (my!) local childminder turned up to our toddler group. Every penny counted towards the hire of the hall and another adult was always welcome to help with tidying up.
It was also a good opportunity to see how she interacted with the children in her care.

On the days when I was at work she took my children so it was part of their routine. She is a member of our community just like any other carer of small children.

I used to go to one - church hall - then 2 childminders started to come along with 6 /8 children - mostly rising 4s - just made it too chaotic and I stopped taking my little 1 year old

I think childminders attending is fine as long as they are responsible for the children in their care and actively watching them/ interacting with them. But then that is what I expect from a parent attending as well. Having attended many of these toddler groups and helped organise one it is up to the organisers who can come.

In all the groups I have had involvement with it was never the childminders children who were unsupervised always parents.
Plus if you exclude child minders will you also exclude people with more than 2 children?

These groups are for toddlers to learn to socialise and if there adults are.lucky they might get to chat to.

I thought the ratio for under 3s meant it was unlikely a cm would have loads of children eligible for a toddler group, anyway?

Children at childminders are already playing alongside other DC by virtue of being at a childminders

I'm confused as to why there is a need for a debate about this.

It's fine for childminders to attend local groups who are happy to welcome childminders, and it's fine for local volunteers groups to say it's for parents only.

There is no need for a 1 rule for all, it's up to the organisers to decide how they want to run their events.

Sorry but that's dumb. Childminders have 5-6 kids of different ages, not a group of toddlers.

Of course it's not illegal. "Childminder" isn't a protected characteristic and a volunteer led group is entitled their purpose and intended users.

They wouldn't excluding the child because of a disability, they would be excluding the childminder because they are not their intended user.

As long as they generally do not exclude disabled children for being disabled then they are not breaking any laws at all.

If it’s to stop a childminder in the area who keeps turning up with six kids so they’re actually having to turn away other parents with their toddlers then I get the issue. If it’s just one childminder who turns up with a couple of kids and they don’t actually need to turn anyone away then why take umbrage with this? The groups are really for the toddlers not parents, it shouldn’t matter who brings them. When I was on mat leave and went to them it was mostly grandparents.

Childminders need to take the children out too! You’d want your own baby to be taken to one of these groups under the care of a childminder wouldn’t you?There’s enough space for everyone normally. I doubt that parents are turned away because the place is full of childminders.

Not necessarily. Sometimes they only have one to look after, and it can be nice for that child to go to a regular group where they see the same playmates each week. You don't get that in the park.

That's exactly why they are often turned away. Read the posts from @Suchevilforebodings

The options are not split into stay at home or go to toddler groups. There are plenty of other places childminders can take their charges.

And is a commercial business really the target audience for a volunteer run group?

It gets difficult when the playgroup relies on the parents to supervise children well & a childminder turns up with 4 toddlers. Its a bigger, busier space than their own home so invariably they are wandering off/getting hurt/misbehaving.

A parent typically only has max 2 (3 at a push if twins) kids age 3 & under and is better able to supervise.

Better though to have a rule of bringing a max number of kids under 3/4 per adult (with an exception for twins).

That's a different kind of group you're talking about, though. It's: "Mothers' support group, babies and toddlers welcome".

Not a problem to discriminate among the adults if it's for the benefit of those adults. But it becomes a problem if you're ostensibly doing it for the benefit of the kids. I'm not saying you were - just that for the purposes of this discussion, it's important to make that distinction.

There's a lot of division on this chat (spoken and unspoken) as to who these gatherings are really for.

There were a couple of childminders/Nannie’s at a group I used to go to. They were friends with the mums. Met up with some of the mums outside of the group. Often gave sleep/eating tips as they had more experience. They are people too you know. Nobody at all ever suggested excluding them. They can be a support to other mums in lots of way.

This sounds weird and a bit sinister.

They are for toddlers, regardless of who is caring for them.