AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

🤣🤣 yes can you imagine those stories being told today!

Definitely some in those categories. The people who bought them would have been DH grandparents and great grandparents. Some of these books are from DH parents childhoods.

It's shocking by today's standards isn't it!
my ex husband had a copy from his own childhood and helpfully showed our kids.
they certainly learned not to play with matches, put it that way!!
yes Rupert was adorable 🥺

Yet some people on here have no idea why the OP may want to avoid her child being exposed to this..!

Blimey I can't imagine anything worse than Struwwelpeter! 😅

The real problem is that modern books do not have the same sense of adventure that many older books have.
Here I am thinking of the series by Enid Blyton - The Island of Adventure, and those with similar names.

One massive difference is the existence of mobile phones nowadays - so many of the plotlines, peril and brave derring-do would be totally obsolete now. What's the point in George sending Timmy to run past the dangerous criminals to take a hastily-written letter to the others - deliberately signing her name as Georgina, so they'll know that something untoward is going on and come and rescue her from the dungeon? These days, she would just WhatsApp them and send them her W3W location (whilst they logged it with 999)... and probably addressing them as skibbidi something-or-other

Totally fine @Dirtymirrors we read lots of classics to our kids and used them as an opportunity to (age appropriately) explain why language wasn't acceptable, what context they were set in and why we don't do that now. We have awell rounded, capable multi cultural children who are well read and have a wide range of views on things. The stories are often still good, and we found they don't hold onto the awful stuff.

Some of us 'of a certain age' were brought up with these books, and in a society where terms which are now unacceptable (and rightly so) were in general use. But its the environment in which you are brought up that is the important thing, teaching children that these words and values existed, but my parents and family led by example and there are now many things that we know and understand are not acceptable.
I think the biggest barrier to your children being interested in these books though is that they just aren't remotely representative of today's society. I've enjoyed reading my childhood books as an adult but purely for the nostalgia.

You have a say too. Personally I would understand my husband’s grief driven response but would not want my children reading as normal outdated cultural stereotypes.

And if we were going to keep the books then we would have to agree that when reading we highlight that the stereotypes / offensive language are relics of another era.

I suppose I always intended to do this I just thought it would be a touch later in childhood. When she was old enough to understand a little more of the context.

Probably ok. Some might be worth a bit.

He absolutely talks to DD about why the stereotypes are not right.

I also think that he probably hasn't looked closely at some of the books he has shoved in the box.

I am going to filter out the ones I have big problems with and put them to one side. I will tell DH what I have done and we will discuss when he is ready to.

Whilst I sort of get your point about some of the subject matter in these older books, I think you need to roll with it. Adults often notice and react to things that go over a child's head. Equally you can say to your child that these books are special because daddy read them when he was little but some of the ideas etc are a bit dated.
I'd be more/equally worried about some of the books children are exposed to now - trans or woke ones are the immediate ones that spring to mind!!!

Dated old books don't hold much interest for children those days. His trip down memory lane (which is probably just part of the grieving process) will be short lived. Let it go.

"Contemporary critics observed that Bannerman presented one of the first black heroes in children's literature and regarded the book as positively portraying black characters in both the text and pictures, especially in comparison to books of that era that depicted black people as simple and uncivilised."

The books were so popular and successful, the characters' names began to be adopted by racists - not the other way around.

"The book's original illustrations were created by the author and were simple in style, and depicted Sambo as a Southern Indian or Tamil child. Little Black Sambo's success led to many counterfeit, inexpensive, easily available versions that incorporated popular stereotypes of "black" peoples."

Know whereof you speak, instead of reflexively repeating whatever seems to be the current right-think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Little_Black_Sambo

Look, isn't this lovely? It's a 1959 edition with illustrations by Violet LaMont. Better than Bannerman's, in my opinion - original Sambo was very black, fair enough for a Tamil Nadu village child, but I like the way LaMont's illustrations convey a generic (idealised) India. 60 years after first publication, of course, both printing technologies and the book's budget were greatly improved.

I would put in a word for Anne here.
She does the domestic stuff because she likes doing that - and the adventurous stuff because she doesn't want to be left out. It's not that she's treated badly; it's as much what she wants to do as much as George.
There is one adventure where she chooses to stay behind and afterwards she says that she won't stay behind again. Not because she feels she missed out on a good adventure etc, but because staying behind not knowing was worse.
In some ways you could argue Dick has a rougher deal as it would have been far harder for him to say he preferred to not go.

Anne is brave, you could argue the bravest, as she knows the risks, doesn't find it fun, but does them anyway because she cares about the others.

As a girlie girl as a child I felt criticism of Anne was saying that enjoying playing with dolls, liking pretty frocks, enjoying setting up a house and cooking was wrong. Rather than it making me feel confined to a domestic box, it made me feel that I couldn't admit to liking that sort of thing, so I was pushed into a different mould that wasn't me.

I never envied the FF their adventures ( although I loved reading about them); I did envy Anne some of the places she got to play house in. Especially the cave in Run Away and the Caravan in the 5th adventure and others.

Acknowledging we're all different, and that wanting to play house is valuable contribution is important.

Oh good grief. Read Fahrenheit 451, you need the education.

You may need some smelling salts first though.

In my opinion I think the fact he is taking the time to talk through the themes and why they are wrong changes things completely. I read all my mum’s Enid Blyton’s and Rupert’s etc. as a child with my mum and she talked to me about the classism and the racism and sexism and it helped to form my view of history and to talk through what I should do if I heard anyone at school spouting the same sort of rubbish.

... I need to apologise for my optimistic view of Sambo's name! (Perhaps it's what my parents told me, who knows.) Helen Bannerman grew up in colonial India, where Sambo was already a racist pejorative. Her other characters' names were also colonial 'jokes'. She did, however, succeed in popularising the name worldwide - as a joke/pejorative.

New editions, apparently, have replaced them with authentic Tamil names.

Yeah there were some pretty off things back then. If it is along those lines then I wouldn't keep it.

If it depicts POC or people from other countries/cultures disrespectfully then it should be binned. Or you could show it in terms of teaching them about prejudice and racism. Then bin it.

Lived famous 5 ( never wanted to go out and play, I was always going to " have an adventure" and the boarding school books Stclares and Mallory towers ( also wanted boarding school lol)

No, obviously not. But it's that in conjunction with the writing style described in my last post. Just left my feeling like it was perpetuating that "thick foreigner" trope. Maybe they're just not my style!

Quite the contrary, which is just as well as I have 4 sons. Ime (which is actually quite extensive) it's the boys whose parents don't talk to them about misogyny that tend to get "educated " on the internet.

If its golliwogs, I get it, but I'd also say, your little one will be influenced by so much more than a few old books, it's probably just comforting to your husband to look through them. Also, I remember reading Enid Blyton I think it was, and I never thought they represented actual people, I was totally unaware of that, to me they were characters like Silky the fairy, or Moonface, no more relevant to real life than dwarves, or elves of whatever. Your influence as they grow and ask questions will be far more important. Don't sweat it.