To expect DH to watch our toddler for 2 hours so i can visit my son?

[DaringTaupeCat]

I’m really hesitant posting this because there is quite a lot of backstory and I know people will have opinions about my eldest. I know what he did was serious and I’m not trying to excuse him or say he shouldn’t have been punished because he should have been.

My eldest is 17 and his birthday is this week. He’s currently serving a sentence. He got into a lot of trouble from about 12 onwards and started mixing with a different group of boys. There were police getting involved quite a lot. In 2023 when he was 14 he was arrested after a bad assault. He was put on bail and then broke his bail conditions and eventually got sentenced. I don’t really want to go into the exact details because I don’t want to identify him and it isn’t really what I’m asking about.

His biological dad has never really been involved. He was in and out when he was tiny and then basically disappeared. DH has been the main male figure in his life since he was about 3 or 4 and when he was little they were actually very close. DH took him to football, did school runs, played games with him and took him out for days. He really did try with him and my son used to call him dad when he was younger.

Things changed when he got to about 12. He started getting into trouble and would come home angry and tell DH that he wasn’t his dad and couldn’t tell him what to do. DH would try to set boundaries and my son would say things like “you’re not my dad, you can’t control me”. Eventually DH stopped trying to act like a dad because every conversation ended in an argument and my son was very clear that he didn’t think DH had any authority over him.

Then my son hit me, more than once and I was frightened of him at times and there were occasions where I didn’t really know what he was going to do when he was angry. DH was absolutely furious about it and I think that’s when he lost a lot of the respect he had for my son. I think he felt he’d spent years looking after him and trying to be there for him and then my son was treating me like that.

I did try as well before anyone judges. I was constantly ringing the school and asking for meetings and trying to get him help. I spoke to youth services and other people and got him appointments. I tried keeping him away from certain boys and I asked his dad to get involved even though he wasn’t really interested. There were times I was literally begging people to help me because I knew things were getting bad.

My eldest has had help with his anger and other things and he’s doing some qualifications. He’s taking them seriously from what I can see and he’s started talking about getting a job when he gets out and not getting mixed up with the same people again. He’s not suddenly perfect and I’m not pretending everything is fixed, but he seems much more respectful now. The way he speaks to me is different and if I can’t visit he accepts it rather than getting angry.

I try to visit every few weeks. I don’t go constantly and I don’t expect DH to come with me. But pretty much every time I arrange a visit we have the same argument about childcare.

Our youngest is 18 months and I’m a SAHM. We don’t have grandparents nearby who I can leave him with and I don’t really have anyone I can ring every few weeks and ask to have him for a couple of hours. I don’t want to take him to the visit either. I want to be able to sit with my eldest and talk to him properly without having a toddler with me.

DH works from home.I know working from home is still working and I’m not saying he has nothing to do but his hours are quite flexible and he can work when he wants as long as he gets the work done iyswim. I’ve asked if he could have DS during that time so I can go and see my eldest for his birthday.

He said no. He says I’m at home all day so childcare is my responsibility and he shouldn’t have to use his working time because I want to go and see someone who has hurt me in the past.

DH said “you chose to have another baby, I’m not responsible for sorting out childcare every time you want to see your other son” and that really upset me. I know I chose to have another baby, obviously, but having another child doesn’t mean my eldest stopped being my son.

I’m not asking DH to visit him or forgive him or have a relationship with him. I just want him to watch his 18 month old for about two hours.

DH says I’m emotionally blackmailing him because I keep bringing up the birthday and because I know my eldest wants me there. Maybe I am without meaning to, I don’t know.

I just feel like he could separate the two things. He can still be angry with my eldest and not want anything to do with him while helping me with our toddler for a couple of hours.

I know my son did wrong and I know he hurt me and I know DH has his reasons for feeling the way he does but I just don’t know if I’m being unreasonable expecting DH to watch our 18 month old for about two hours so I can visit my son on his birthday.

When he goes to gym or similar on a Saturday does he ask you to have the baby ?
If hes not working in a Saturday could you just leave the baby with him ? What would he do if you did ?
I can understand why your husband doesn't like your son but he is controlling and punishing you because you forgive your son for hitting you in his eyes.
I hope your son does turn a corner but need to think that a lot of people in prison will say all sorts to have vistors and someone bringing them things.
What is the plan when he is released ?
Where will he live as i assume it wont be at yours not only due to your husband but if he starts his old habits you need to think of your other child as well as yourself.

This!

This!

I think this is probably a very complicated situation - and I say that as someone married to an ex-con.

I guess there's some relevant details (not asking you to divulge) about possible release dates and how your husband feels about any attempts at reconciliation. But it sounds as if you need to have a proper conversation about expectations, for you in terms of visits and for him in terms of the future. There's a good chance your DH doesn't want to have anything further to do with the boy, in which case you're going to need to come to a decision about what your family is going to look like in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, etc.

I don't envy you.

At first I was going to say that I would never ask my DH who works from home to take time off during the day in the same way I wouldn't call him home from the office (he has meetings and calls and it would be unprofessional outside of an emergency),

However, then I saw that he goes to the gym during the day so I guess he doesn't take his work very seriously so clearly this is to do with his attitude towards your son.

I think you two need to have some proper counselling on this because being the parents of a child in prison must be quite complex and traumatic. I can't begin to understand what you go through so I think you should both speak to an expert.

Your DH is being a prick. He is responsible for caring for his son. SAHM does not prevent you from wanting some time off for something. (Even if it wasnt this important) He gets evenings and weekends. And you didnt make your toddler alone. YOU didnt decide to have your toddler you AND DH

And tbh your husband sounds controlling and bullying in his own way. Id be telling him actually arranging childcare is his job as the other parent. Id get up and go see your eldest and let him figure it out.

And if you arent prepared to make this your hill to die, take your toddler. Whatever you do dont let your eldest down on his birthday. Im pleased his sentance seems to be helping him sort his life out

Well he has a choice: help make your house happen or accept that you will take a toddler with you.

*visits not house

I agree DH sounds a bully, with a very weird take on children and his responsibilities and cruel speech.

As a step son I could see myself hanging about elsewhere to get away from him.

Your son's best chance to escape being a repeat criminal is your love and boundaried support OP, does your older son not regard your toddler as his brother and someone he'd like to see? I hope you see DS on his Birthday

OP your eldest is still a child, he’s obviously made some bad decisions but he has an awful lot of life left. He has a much better chance of turning things round with your support. Your DH is an arse if he’s effectively asking you to choose between your children. He absolutely could look after your toddler, he just doesn’t want to.

Your dh sounds like a twat. I can’t believe you had a baby with him whilst your other son was going off the rails.
book a babysitter or ask a friend and then I’d be looking to leave him. It doesn’t sound like a happy home.

Was the serious assault your son was involved in sexual?

Anyway your husband is unreasonable, he chose to have a child too.

YANBU and your DH is being awful and selfish. I think it is important for you to visit your son without your 18m in tow so you can give him the time and attention he needs and spend time together rebuilding your relationship. If your DH will not help can anyone at all help you? Failing that just tell him you are going and he will need to take leave that day as you are not able to care for 18m old at that time. Surely he is able to take annual leave if he can’t look after him for 2 hours in the middle of the working day. He clearly does not want you to visit your son and is controlling this.

Your DH is being abusive. That's an abusive dynamic. And perhaps an abusive dynamic that your eldest also endured.

From what you have said OP, I think the issue is bigger than this 1 visit and needs to be addressed longer term. You see a change in your older son, has your dh had the opportunity to see this too? You say they used to have a good relationship, have they tried to rebuild that? Would they both be willing to? I understand that your dh is (rightfully) upset over your son's treatment of you. Has your son actually acknowledged his wrongdoings and apologised? To you and your husband? As a mother, you have unconditional love for your child, your husband does not. Ultimately, your dh may not agree with your decision to have a relationship with your child but he shouldn't try to stand in your way. In doing so, he is forcing you to make a choice between them, make that clear to him and be clear on what your decision would be. Another possible consideration depending on how long your son will be incarcerated for is what happens on his release? Would living with you be a possibility? There is absolutely no reason why your husband can't watch his own son so you can see your older one on his birthday. If it was me, I would be choosing him.

@DaringTaupeCat No matter what your eldest has done, he's 17 and you're his mother. Rehabilitation is still possible and his chances will be better if he feels the love and support of his mother. Ofcourse you should see him on his birthday. I would ask your dh if he thinks prison is a good place to bring your 18 month old son. If he shrugs it just means he doesn't give a damn about his son nor about you.

We can’t ask those questions but Google will tell you the type of crimes an under 16 year old must commit to get such a sentence.

The visit alone is the least of ops worries.

But the simple answer is a baby sitter every bloody week if she wants to see her son while her dh works. It’s really not that hard. Op just doesn’t want to.

@DaringTaupeCat go, even if you have to take the youngest. Wouldn't be my first choice to take my child to visit a prison, but he won't even remember it. Your elder son might really enjoy seeing his sibling. It could also give him more reason to keep doing what he's doing, learn from his mistakes and be a positive role model.

Your H sounds horrible. I completely understand his feelings towards your son but ultimately if he's happy for his own child to visit him IN PRISON just because he doesn't want to look after him, it shows you that he'd only doing this out of spite and doesn't actually think your older son is a risk.

You are responsible for two children, your H doesn't think he's responsible for any. I donlt know how you can want to stay with him when he'll work gaming and the gym round his job but not for either of your children.

If he wasn't such a knob I would encourage the 17 year old to take accountability for how he has treated your H (you go without saying), but he is a knob and at this stage more emotionally immature than the boy in prison.

He isn;t defending you by doing this, he's causing you more upset.

All these awful abusive men in your orbit @DaringTaupeCat it is very sad. You deserve so much better. Your DH is behaving really poorly.

Are you planning for your eldest's release? Is it going to be safe for you and your 18 month old for him to come and live with you again?

If your plan is to leave your husband because your husband doesn't want to live with your eldest again you'll need to make sure that's a viable plan. Children's services may well object to your eldest living with your youngest if the offence was one of violence.

I think your husband needs to remember your eldest is still a child however badly he behaved.

You need alternative childcare if your husband won't do it. Visiting imprisoned people / maintaining family connections is important in reducing reoffending.

Various crimes and also if a repeat offender (which he was) so that doesn't narrow it down.

I’d book childcare or take toddler with you. I understand neither are your preferred options but it seems they are your only options. DH isn’t being very supportive to you. Consider returning to work when your toddler has recovered so you’re more secure financially. This will also give you more options about support you want to give DS when he is released. I’m guessing DH won’t be wanting him in the family home.

This. Your son is paying a price for whatever he did, but he is still a child who seems to have had a difficult start in life, and will need support. Your DH is showing you how much support he wants to give you. None.

I hadn't thought about this part, but no matter how much the son has changed, I don't think it would be fair on the younger child to have him living with them until he proved he really was rehabilitated. I'm not sure on how it goes, but I think he would have help from the council to move somewhere by himself even if supported?

Is your husband going to be expected to fund your son and let him move in when he's released?