To expect DH to watch our toddler for 2 hours so i can visit my son?

[DaringTaupeCat]

I’m really hesitant posting this because there is quite a lot of backstory and I know people will have opinions about my eldest. I know what he did was serious and I’m not trying to excuse him or say he shouldn’t have been punished because he should have been.

My eldest is 17 and his birthday is this week. He’s currently serving a sentence. He got into a lot of trouble from about 12 onwards and started mixing with a different group of boys. There were police getting involved quite a lot. In 2023 when he was 14 he was arrested after a bad assault. He was put on bail and then broke his bail conditions and eventually got sentenced. I don’t really want to go into the exact details because I don’t want to identify him and it isn’t really what I’m asking about.

His biological dad has never really been involved. He was in and out when he was tiny and then basically disappeared. DH has been the main male figure in his life since he was about 3 or 4 and when he was little they were actually very close. DH took him to football, did school runs, played games with him and took him out for days. He really did try with him and my son used to call him dad when he was younger.

Things changed when he got to about 12. He started getting into trouble and would come home angry and tell DH that he wasn’t his dad and couldn’t tell him what to do. DH would try to set boundaries and my son would say things like “you’re not my dad, you can’t control me”. Eventually DH stopped trying to act like a dad because every conversation ended in an argument and my son was very clear that he didn’t think DH had any authority over him.

Then my son hit me, more than once and I was frightened of him at times and there were occasions where I didn’t really know what he was going to do when he was angry. DH was absolutely furious about it and I think that’s when he lost a lot of the respect he had for my son. I think he felt he’d spent years looking after him and trying to be there for him and then my son was treating me like that.

I did try as well before anyone judges. I was constantly ringing the school and asking for meetings and trying to get him help. I spoke to youth services and other people and got him appointments. I tried keeping him away from certain boys and I asked his dad to get involved even though he wasn’t really interested. There were times I was literally begging people to help me because I knew things were getting bad.

My eldest has had help with his anger and other things and he’s doing some qualifications. He’s taking them seriously from what I can see and he’s started talking about getting a job when he gets out and not getting mixed up with the same people again. He’s not suddenly perfect and I’m not pretending everything is fixed, but he seems much more respectful now. The way he speaks to me is different and if I can’t visit he accepts it rather than getting angry.

I try to visit every few weeks. I don’t go constantly and I don’t expect DH to come with me. But pretty much every time I arrange a visit we have the same argument about childcare.

Our youngest is 18 months and I’m a SAHM. We don’t have grandparents nearby who I can leave him with and I don’t really have anyone I can ring every few weeks and ask to have him for a couple of hours. I don’t want to take him to the visit either. I want to be able to sit with my eldest and talk to him properly without having a toddler with me.

DH works from home.I know working from home is still working and I’m not saying he has nothing to do but his hours are quite flexible and he can work when he wants as long as he gets the work done iyswim. I’ve asked if he could have DS during that time so I can go and see my eldest for his birthday.

He said no. He says I’m at home all day so childcare is my responsibility and he shouldn’t have to use his working time because I want to go and see someone who has hurt me in the past.

DH said “you chose to have another baby, I’m not responsible for sorting out childcare every time you want to see your other son” and that really upset me. I know I chose to have another baby, obviously, but having another child doesn’t mean my eldest stopped being my son.

I’m not asking DH to visit him or forgive him or have a relationship with him. I just want him to watch his 18 month old for about two hours.

DH says I’m emotionally blackmailing him because I keep bringing up the birthday and because I know my eldest wants me there. Maybe I am without meaning to, I don’t know.

I just feel like he could separate the two things. He can still be angry with my eldest and not want anything to do with him while helping me with our toddler for a couple of hours.

I know my son did wrong and I know he hurt me and I know DH has his reasons for feeling the way he does but I just don’t know if I’m being unreasonable expecting DH to watch our 18 month old for about two hours so I can visit my son on his birthday.

Who is a grown man who beat his wife?
the ops son is 16, he’s turning 17. He committed the assault when he’s 14. He was a child. He is a child. He’s old enough that other people don’t need to forgive him for assault, but his mum should. If I were his mother I would be visiting. I would be deeply unimpressed with the dp and decide to plan for a job and more independence because he won’t let me be there for both children. For now, take the toddler if dp won’t look after him, and tell dp he’s not fixing anything by refusing to watch his own toddler, he’s just ensuring you need to manage your own independence, because you will support your child with or without him, and it’s ironic your dp is refusing even to look after his own child, who is a toddler and hasn’t assaulted anyone.

Sorry OP, I haven't read the full thread, but I totally get that no matter what your son has done, you still love him and want to see him, and probably that desire to go and visit him is getting stronger now that you can see that prison actually appears to be making him change for the better. I really DO hope that this is the case.

However, I also understand why your DH is really angry with him, BUT he is not punishing your DS, he is punishing YOU, and as a husband that is wrong on many levels.

At this point, and with your DS due to be released early next year, I think you need to be giving some serious thought as to where you want your life to go from here, as without your support, I think it likely that your older son will revert to his old ways pretty quickly. Have you discussed with him where he's going to go when he's released, as it would seem obvious that he can't come back home? The reason I say that I think you need to give serious thought to your own future, is that you are always going to love your oldest child, and your DH is unlikely to forgive him for his past actions, so you need to think about how you are going to cope with this, as if he's making it so difficult for you to visit now, how's he going to react when you want to see your son after he's released? Has his behaviour with regard to your DS since he's been in prison, made you view your DH in a different light OP? Sadly, I do think you made a mistake by having another child, because as a SAHM, you presumably have no real income of your own, which leaves you trapped with your DH, and a young child, if things go downhill in the relationship, which I think is likely, as your DS is always going to be a bone of contention in your marriage.

Anyway, to deal with your current problem, I think in your shoes I would be having a serious conversation with your DH, when your little one is in bed, and you have time to talk uninterrupted. I would tell him that while you understand his feelings toward your oldest son, as his Mum you are NEVER going to stop loving him, and will ALWAYS want a relationship of some sort with him, regardless of how HE feels. I would tell him that by being so unhelpful when you want to visit your son, he is punishing YOU not your DS, and he is also punishing his own child, as if he won't look after him, then you will have to get someone else to, as you are not prepared to allow him to control you, or blackmail you, and point out that surely he would rather take care of his child, than have you pay someone else to care for him, or worse still, you will take him with you to the prison, as you are going to visit your eldest son on his birthday, come what may. I would also point out, that you could quite easily lie to him, and tell him you're going shopping, or visiting a friend, etc., but you want to be truthful with him, as having to lie about where you're going, is a slippery slope to divorce. Then, if he won't see reason after this, I think you are going to have to take your young one with you, as you're clearly going to be worrying about him the whole time you are away from him if you leave him with someone else.

I hope that you can have an adult conversation with your DH and sort this out OP, but I'm afraid you have a rocky road ahead of you.

Where will your son live when he's released, will the prison sort somewhere for him?
He can't move back in with you.

You should have probably read the pp I was responding to, They are the one who mentioned a male beating a wife. Then I made the same point you are making.

Your DH is a cunt - he should be looking after your child while you go to see your son. It also sounds like your DH was emotionally abusive to your oldest when things started kicking off - no wonder things escalated for your son.

You really need to consider what you want your life to look like OP because it sounds like your DH will continue to block your relationship with your son, is that something your prepared to put up with

Was bullying involved? Common time for it to start when you're starting highschool. Then they feel the need to be 'tougher' than the bullies - then bully others. Not excusable, but maybe more easier to understand a sudden change in behaviour. Again, I'm not excusing it.

Having a child and being a SAHM doesn't mean you should then be responsible for them 24/7. What about time to exercise, take care of your hair, just be yourself for a minute...? Does he do any childcare at all?
Although if is has to be during his working hours maybe hire a babysitter?

There will be help in form on UC if OPs salary isn't high enough to support her and her son and she doesn't have sufficient savings to do so. If her youngest only stay with her she will also get cms, and there is help to get for childcare costs.

Of course it is not easy to just up and leave but her husband has made it pretty clear that her oldest son is not a part of their family, and I don't know any parent who would be OK with that. So if OP wants a family where both her children are welcome, she will have to do it without the husband. Nobody trumps your children after all and her son is only 16, soon to be 17. It would be a different story if this is his situation still at 30, but he is working on turning his life around.

So do we write children off, or do we also believe in rehabilitation for children? Without famliy support, children don't come out of the criminal system. The only support group he will have is the old criminal element.

MN is wild, if someone posts about an adult sex offender, even if it's child abuse, you get posters saying that he's done his time. But this site is incredibly harsh on white, WC boys.
@DaringTaupeCat take your toddler if you have to. Now is the time to tell your DH that you are offering support to your son, so he can go on to have a productive life. It's in everyone's interest that we help children to do and be better. You can do that while still protecting yourself and your younger child. Your DH cannot expect you to just completely write him off.

i have acknowledged his feelings but he’s my son, i’m not going to cut him off

OP, can I please ask, did your DH really want the baby, and how much is he generally involved in his life?

What's going yo happen when your son is released? Where will he live? How much do you want to be in his life and vice versa? Do you want your toddler to have a relationship with his big brother? What sort of time/emotional /financial support will you provide?
How does your DH feel about all of that?

I think you need to zoom out from this issue of childcare so you can visit now, and focus on your DHs quite valid feelings towards your older son. You and DH need to talk about what life is going to look like on his release and both feel comfortable with whatever that looks like

He did, I didn’t want anyone baby hence the age gap but the pregnancy was unplanned and he wanted to keep him, obviously I love ds but until I got pregnant I didnt want another dc. Which is why he makes no sense with his comment

Thanks for your response OP, however you didn't answer my question about whether your DH is actively involved with your little one, playing with him, bathing him, etc., or whether because he's enabled you to be a SAHM, he expects you to do EVERYTHING for your little one.

Your husband is right. I wouldn’t facilitate family contact with a violent criminal either.

he’s 16. He was 14 when he committed the offense. I’d believe with my whole heart that he could be rehabilitated if he were my child. Visiting him is not the same as letting him live with you when you have a toddler at home.

And it increasingly sounds like this boy lived with a controlling step dad who wanted the baby that he now uses to control the op by refusing to look after.

Irrelevant. He’s a violent thug, and his step father has got the measure of him.

I really feel for you, OP. This isn’t about him being unable to look after your toddler, he doesnt want to facilitate you seeing your son.

I can completely understand him having very difficult feelings towards your eldest after everything that has happened, but refusing to look after his own toddler and then throwing the fact that you’re a SAHM back in your face feels really unfair. You’re not asking him to visit your son, forgive him or have a relationship with him. You’re asking for two hours so that you can continue having a relationship with your child.

I’d much rather my DH was honest and said, “I don’t want you visiting him,” than make it difficult for me to go while pretending it’s simply about childcare.

I take it you don’t believe in rehabilitation, then? What he did was serious and completely indefensible, but what exactly are you suggesting — that we lock him up and throw away the key, and that his mum should turn her back on him forever and write him off? Condemning his offence doesn’t mean condemning a 17 year-old as irredeemable for the rest of his life

I think your DH has been an absolute star for years.
He obviously cannot believe you still want contact with your utterly feral DS.
And neither can I.

Not sure how you’ve worked that Baby is only 18 months old and was unplanned. The son is turning 17 so OP wouldn’t have been pregnant when he was sentenced?

Well done, for being there for your son.
You are his mom and it is absolutely important that he has a supportive parent.

I truly hope that your son can turn his life around and has a brighter future.
This will take a lot of effort and you can't give up when things get hard. I do understand that it's going to be hard because at that age, theough their teen year and going forward they are immature and think they know better.
That's far from the truth, they need firm guidance and in the future they will look back and then understand and appreciate it.

However, your husband will try to come between you.
Even though he has been hurt by your sons behaviour, why is he stopping you from being there for your son?
He is mean, selfish and jealous.
Your husband is an imature adult, who's controlling behaviour is terrible.
He has no empathy towards your son or your feelings.
Maybe, your husband wants your oldest son out of the way?
If your son sees that he is not wanted he's obviously going to feel rejected and then he will get involved in the wrong crowd again because its easier.
No child deserves rejection, its love and support that help them to flourish and blossom.
I truly hope you can help your son to turn his life around.
Best wishes.

While that may be true for older criminals it's definitely not true for young people. Their brain are not fully developed hence why we do not condemn minors as severely as adults. Your lack of empathy toward the boy and OP is chilling. Op has already seen how he has changed from when he was 14 and violent.

@DaringTaupeCat Although my son never has been in trouble with the justice he did have a very violent period when he was 14; hit me, his dad, himself. Had to hospitalise him twice to reconsider treatment. He's autistic so a bit different but as far as hormonal changes come he was absolutely the worst at 14; out of control and violent at home, refused to go to school (anxiety attacks). Now at 16 he's not a joy to live with but he's way calmer and he's NEVER violent. Puberty fucks up their brain, some more than others. Not justifying what your son did but there is very good hope for him coming out on the other side, especially with support from family and social workers.

Please don't take some of the negative comments to your heart- some people struggle with empathy. Your situation is very difficult. I hope you've got some friends irl to support you and give you a hug.🩷

Where as I totally believe people can be rehabilitated for many things, beating up women is not one of them. He was fourteen…not six. And it wasn’t even a one off. That’s not changing (not unless he had a severe untreated mental health condition that now is getting medicated anyway).

Sadly what’s going to happen is he will probably move on to abusing a partner in some way shape or form.

But sometimes we want so desperately to see the best in our children that we will blame things on bad friends or anger issues or whatever we can because we don’t want to let them go. It takes them hurting someone who isn’t us before we see it for what it is.

To be fair, I think she’d regret not giving him a chance. You have to be sure before writing off your own kid. Neither we nor ops partner can decide these things for her.