To expect DH to watch our toddler for 2 hours so i can visit my son?

[DaringTaupeCat]

I’m really hesitant posting this because there is quite a lot of backstory and I know people will have opinions about my eldest. I know what he did was serious and I’m not trying to excuse him or say he shouldn’t have been punished because he should have been.

My eldest is 17 and his birthday is this week. He’s currently serving a sentence. He got into a lot of trouble from about 12 onwards and started mixing with a different group of boys. There were police getting involved quite a lot. In 2023 when he was 14 he was arrested after a bad assault. He was put on bail and then broke his bail conditions and eventually got sentenced. I don’t really want to go into the exact details because I don’t want to identify him and it isn’t really what I’m asking about.

His biological dad has never really been involved. He was in and out when he was tiny and then basically disappeared. DH has been the main male figure in his life since he was about 3 or 4 and when he was little they were actually very close. DH took him to football, did school runs, played games with him and took him out for days. He really did try with him and my son used to call him dad when he was younger.

Things changed when he got to about 12. He started getting into trouble and would come home angry and tell DH that he wasn’t his dad and couldn’t tell him what to do. DH would try to set boundaries and my son would say things like “you’re not my dad, you can’t control me”. Eventually DH stopped trying to act like a dad because every conversation ended in an argument and my son was very clear that he didn’t think DH had any authority over him.

Then my son hit me, more than once and I was frightened of him at times and there were occasions where I didn’t really know what he was going to do when he was angry. DH was absolutely furious about it and I think that’s when he lost a lot of the respect he had for my son. I think he felt he’d spent years looking after him and trying to be there for him and then my son was treating me like that.

I did try as well before anyone judges. I was constantly ringing the school and asking for meetings and trying to get him help. I spoke to youth services and other people and got him appointments. I tried keeping him away from certain boys and I asked his dad to get involved even though he wasn’t really interested. There were times I was literally begging people to help me because I knew things were getting bad.

My eldest has had help with his anger and other things and he’s doing some qualifications. He’s taking them seriously from what I can see and he’s started talking about getting a job when he gets out and not getting mixed up with the same people again. He’s not suddenly perfect and I’m not pretending everything is fixed, but he seems much more respectful now. The way he speaks to me is different and if I can’t visit he accepts it rather than getting angry.

I try to visit every few weeks. I don’t go constantly and I don’t expect DH to come with me. But pretty much every time I arrange a visit we have the same argument about childcare.

Our youngest is 18 months and I’m a SAHM. We don’t have grandparents nearby who I can leave him with and I don’t really have anyone I can ring every few weeks and ask to have him for a couple of hours. I don’t want to take him to the visit either. I want to be able to sit with my eldest and talk to him properly without having a toddler with me.

DH works from home.I know working from home is still working and I’m not saying he has nothing to do but his hours are quite flexible and he can work when he wants as long as he gets the work done iyswim. I’ve asked if he could have DS during that time so I can go and see my eldest for his birthday.

He said no. He says I’m at home all day so childcare is my responsibility and he shouldn’t have to use his working time because I want to go and see someone who has hurt me in the past.

DH said “you chose to have another baby, I’m not responsible for sorting out childcare every time you want to see your other son” and that really upset me. I know I chose to have another baby, obviously, but having another child doesn’t mean my eldest stopped being my son.

I’m not asking DH to visit him or forgive him or have a relationship with him. I just want him to watch his 18 month old for about two hours.

DH says I’m emotionally blackmailing him because I keep bringing up the birthday and because I know my eldest wants me there. Maybe I am without meaning to, I don’t know.

I just feel like he could separate the two things. He can still be angry with my eldest and not want anything to do with him while helping me with our toddler for a couple of hours.

I know my son did wrong and I know he hurt me and I know DH has his reasons for feeling the way he does but I just don’t know if I’m being unreasonable expecting DH to watch our 18 month old for about two hours so I can visit my son on his birthday.

Your DH is awful OP....Your eldest son is in prison and he wont support your visit by looking after his own child?!

Book a babysitter. Even if it embarrasses your dh to have someone else turn up to look after your dc at home.

that’s step one. Step two is starting to look for a job and build your independence, dc will get used to going to a childminder /nursery very quickly. Your marriage isn’t equal and he doesn’t respect you. Get your own job and income. Childcare will be a joint responsibility.

I’m assuming your older son isn’t moving back into the family home when he’s released . I have some sympathy for your OH not in terms of babysitting but your older son being atrocious. He tried to treat him as family and then all hell breaks loose . I’d not risk him in the home again .

It's your husband I don't like the sound of.

Does he 'watch your son' other times? Like so you can meet a friend or workout or go shopping or whatever? Or does he - for some reason - think your child is your responsibility 24 hours a day? Two different problems, both bad of course.

It's horrible that he is being this difficult. Of course you can't cut your son off, though depending on what he did (hurt you? hurt the baby? something really bad?) I can see it would be tricky to feel like you're facilitating something terrible. But going to see your own child once a month is entirely fair and it's also entirely fair to expect a child's father could hang out with his own child for a couple hours now and again.

Your husband is being very unfair

DH said “you chose to have another baby, I’m not responsible for sorting out childcare every time you want to see your other son”

Is it not his baby then? Did he not also choose to have another baby, or is that different for some reason (misogyny)?
How often does he ask you to look after the baby so that you can go out? How often does he look after the baby alone?

Absolutely no judgement, OP. I'm glad your eldest is finding rehabilitation in prison and I'm glad you're supporting him. I hope you have support to keep boundaries when he comes out.

I can understand your husband being angry about what has happened, and being concerned for you. But it doesn't actually sound like concern, it sounds like control. If he can and does work flexibly, he should be doing that to a reasonable degree to enable you to do things you want or need to. Even if he doesn't agree.

You absolutely can look after a toddler for a couple of hours and work at the same time. I've done it every day for the past week.

Your DH is massively unreasonable.

I think everything aside, you need to get a job. You need to stop being reliant on men. Think practically. You have had two partners that seem to think parenting is optional and an abusive son to boot.
Yes your son has been angry at the world, and probably having another child when it’s all such a mess wasn’t the wisest. But you are where you are. And you don’t deserve to be treated so poorly by any of them.
Try and get a babysitter for now if you can. But if you can’t, then don’t feel bad. You can only do what you can do. But look ahead and start getting some independence back, starting with a job. Start building yourself some savings so that you can get a babysitter when needed. Start getting some confidence back. Even if it’s only a few hours in the evening.
Do not let yourself be walked over by anyone any more!

Did your H speak to your eldest like that?

He's deeply unpleasant

Can you take your youngest with you?

So he wants his toddler to go to a prison then?

Honestly I would be rethinking the man

just go. Literally place your toddler in the room with him and walk out the house. What’s he going to do?? This must be incredibly difficult for you and your partners being an un supporting arse hole.

Spot on 👍🏻

How often does he ask you to look after the baby so that you can go out?

Eh?

You need to book a babysitter. Your husband can't look after a toddler during working hours. He's probably also absolutely fuming about the abusive person your eldest has turned out to be, and is reluctant to facilitate you hanging out with your abuser and blowing out birthday candles with him!

Can you take the youngest with you?

I wouldn't if at all avoidable, because I think your eldest deserves his Mum to himself, particularly on his birthday, rather than being presented with the child you have 'replaced' him with. (In his mind, perhaps?)

I just wondered if you said to your DH 'I'll take Jason with me to see Jack in prison then,' whether he would suddenly be able to mind him for 2 hours.

Can you ask any friend at all to have him for a one off for the birthday at least?

Your husband sounds like a dick.

I want to be able to sit with my eldest and talk to him properly without having a toddler with me.

It might not be perfect but if your toddler is safe there, take them. An imperfect visit is better than no visit.

I would not be allowed to look after a toddler while wfh, just as I wouldn’t be able to bring one to the office. I do think it’s reasonable for him to look after his child, but what you’d essentially be asking is can you take some time off for childcare please. I can see why he might not want to do that given the circumstances, but equally that’s what relationship compromises involve and in his position I would grit my teeth and accept that you don’t want to ditch the older son.

It seems like you have moved on from your son bullying you to your husband bullying you. Show him this thread. Tell him everyone believes he is unreasonable. Longer term, look to get a job and tell him why - that you will not be beholden to a man to get a few hours spare every few weeks. What a dick he is.

No she isn’t, read all her posts. He doesn’t have set hours so much as a set amount of work he needs to do. He regularly goes to the gym during his “working day”.

I agree with what PP have said, yes it's understandable why your DH isn't remotely interested in your son, given the history. However, the comment about your choice to have another child is pretty shit and hes being deliberately obtuse.
What will happen with your son when hes released, is he expecting to live with you?, i imagine he will need a stable home to enable him to maintain his changed behaviour.
I would worry about your marriage long term.

He's probably also absolutely fuming about the abusive person your eldest has turned out to be, and is reluctant to facilitate you hanging out with your abuser

Aren't you perceptive!? OP literally told us that in her post!

Well he can take annual leave. Or, indeed, work flexibly as the OP has stated. Is it only on Mumsnet that people can't take annual leave for perfectly valid reasons? Because in my very normal life my husband can take time off his work to go to school events, watch the youngest whilst I pop to the doctors etc. The mind boggles here sometimes.

I agree with @Jaxinabox if I'm honest

You've managed to find two fathers who think parenting is optional and think raising a child is your responsibility I'm afraid

I do think you are absolutely doing the right thing visiting your son, he needs support from you if he's going to turn his life around

But I forsee a bigger battle ahead when his sentence is over. Will he want to come back and live with you? You really need some independence from DH. He does not respect you.

A normal father would have booked half a days leave and been happy to look after his baby regardless of the reason.