To be shocked to read on reddit threads discussing andy carrol the many reports of women sexually assaulting men

[Tinkalinkalink]

To think It was really sad to read so many posts where men detail unwilling sex or waking up to sex acts etc. All saying no one takes this seriously and the impact its had on them.

Is this widely known?

Do we need to be talking about women gaining consent from men more .

Unless im incredibly naive I do find it surprising that bots would make up multiple posts? Is there any way to check if they were produced by AI?

Isn't it strange though that the conversation when discussing Carroll's story of surviving SA perpetrated by a man should have so many men talking about being SA'd by women? Why aren't men coming out and saying how awful other men are?

To me it sounds a lot like they are minimizing male perpetrated SA and comparing it to female. When in reality it's much less frequent. And rape isn't even possible unless you own a penis.

The conversation wasn't and shouldn't have been about the tiny minority of women who SA men.

Im surprised by this reaction. Why shouldn't we talk about the wider issues prompted by Andy carrols sa - a key one is clearly woman to male SA.

It's more I don't trust the motives of a lot of the male population of Reddit.

I agree with you to some extent. Men were up in arms about Lindsay Clancy but silent on the Cornell 7.
but this does happen. My ex was sexually abused by his stepmother as a 12 year old, thinks it wasn’t abuse because he enjoyed it and any little boy would have been lucky, and carried huge guilt towards his dad for years for ‘cheating with his wife’. He is beyond fucked up now, has a terrible attitude towards women and was a child abuse victim who needed the same care and support as a female victim should have been.

the lack of care for both sexes in this situation is harrowing and I think talking about all of it needs to happen.

I am really sorry your ex went through this.

The toxic cultural attitude of 'lucky boy' needs discussing and dismantling.

What happened was child sexual abuse and the predator played on threse cultural narratives to normalise it.

It sounds like it's you who has only just become aware of this so perhaps you should check in with your own attitudes towards men before you start chastising everyone else.

Im interested as to why you would say this - do you mean i think men have no right to say no? Or that i am naive to male experience of SA?
Im clearly naive to a problem that sounds much more extensive than I thought.
I apologise if ive come off as chastising others - that was not my intention

I'm so sorry that happened. That's so sad. Of course it's possible for women to abuse and it's absolutely disgraceful.

But the Reddit situation I think sadly was diluting serious real cases with bad actors and misogyny.

Most men that are sexually assaulted are assaulted by other men.

What are men doing? Whatever it is you want women to do, are men doing that? Are you starting threads about how men should be doing more or taking responsibility?

Or are you just wanting to try to push the "women are just as bad" false narrative that is generally used as a shield against abusive male behaviour?

Don’t you remember what happened around Brexit and the bots? There was no AI then - even though I agree, nowadays, it’s probably AI too.

But I wasn’t JUST talking about bots.
There is a part of the Internet/manosphere full of people who believe women are there to hurt them, feminism is the cause of all problems, esp the ones men experience. They are men who will go to any length to ‘prove’ how awful women are. And truth isn’t part of their vocabulary. Rather most stuff is distorted to fit their views. Like a thread about men raping men, theyre answering with women are sexually assaulting men… close to DARVO really.

It’s not restricted to sexism/rape etc… btw. If you read threads from doctors talking about their patients, and esp women, it would make wonder if there’s any point in going to see a GP.

Reddit is a cesspit. You need to read threads there knowing that you might stumble on those behaviours imo.

Does it mean you’re wrong re the fact men are getting sexually assaulted?
No. They are too. And consent applies in every case.
Does it mean the consequence of sexual assault aren’t devastating further men too? Well yes they can be too.
Does it mean the REASON behind the assault is the same for men and women? The research in behaviour analysis says NO. Men are about control. Women about gettimg the sexual intimacy/sex they wanted.

No im not trying to push the women are just as bad trope

@Tinkalinkalink, mn is full of women who hate men, all men, and struggle with anything that is a woman's fault.

It's an important question.

Looking back to the journey women went on, it started with women saying louder and louder No, This Is Not Ok. It's not just a laugh, it's not boys being boys, it's not fair game if we dress like we are up for it. That moved the dial so the public and private conversations could happen.

I agree women have our bit to do, obviously by not sexually assaulting anyone ourselves (though I hope I don't have to tell anyone here that!) but also by not minimising "hen-night" type groping as "just a laugh" and making sure daughters understand consent applies to what they want to do to boys as well as what boys want to do to them, and sons understand they have a right to say No.

But I think whatever women do, it won't be taken seriously unless men change the "lucky boy!" culture around it.

As long as men get the message from their peers they should want and take advantage of an attractive women sexually assaulting them, laugh at an unattractive one with their mates (but maybe take advantage anyway, what the hell), but either way definitely not find the experience in any way upsetting or traumatic or frightening or degrading because those feelings are weak feelings and real men don't feel weak because of anything a woman could do, this won't be taken seriously. Men won't object even though they should, and so it will continue to be played down.

It would be great if that reddit thread is the start of men saying "this happened and no, it didn't make me feel lucky or great. It made me feel poweless and scared and ashamed and I've never felt 100% ok since" and feeling like they can have sympathy for each other rather than looking down on men who admit that a woman had the power to make them feel like this.

"mn is full of women who hate men, all men, and struggle with anything that is a woman's fault. "
Well, thats just lazy bollocks.
Most of us love the men in our lives. I certainly do.
Horrible, abusive men dont get a pass from me because my husband, my sons, my bil, my uncle and so on are all fab men who I love a lot.
Nor do shitty men get a pass from me because male friends are lovely.

In fact, because I know many great men is one of the reasons I dont tolerate or excuse the awful ones or act like they cant help it.

I expect decent behaviour. I demand it. We all should. The is not man hating and I am so sick of that lazy, boring accusation

@FlirtsWithRhinos beautifully put

Exactly this

Absolutely- holding men to account never stops being the first priority in protecting all victims

Unpacking misogyny means unpacking toxic masculinity too

A single Reddit thread is not evidence of a widespread societal phenomenon. If there is an equivalent to Me Too, with men in large numbers across platforms and in real life start talking about this (and get subjected to the same scrutiny, scepticism, trolling and threats as women who shared their experiences as survivors of sexual assault) then it's worth taking seriously. But a Reddit thread motivated by misogyny that hijacks the experience of a male victim of male sexual assault in order to attempt to discredit women? No, that's really not enough to convince people that this is a particularly widespread issue. The vast majority of victims of sexual violence, both male and female, are assaulted by male perpetrators. Male sexual violence dwarfs female sexual violence to a staggering degree, and there are mountains of evidence to support that. One bad-faith Reddit thread to argue otherwise. I don't think it's women who need to be doing even more than they already are to educate others about consent.

"Isn't it strange though that the conversation when discussing Carroll's story of surviving SA perpetrated by a man should have so many men talking about being SA'd by women?"

Think that's your misandry showing. If you read some of that thread; many men posted about their experiences of being assaulted sexually; some posted about being assaulted by gay or bi men and others posted about assaulted by women.

Whilst it is true men committ more sexual offences I imagine the balance of men assaulted by men compared to may be overstated.

Women assaulting men is seldom reported. Even on this thread some posters have posted that assault on men by women is irrelevant/ immaterial because the vast majority of people attacked are women.

The proportion of men likely to assault other men is lower than those that assault women.

I don't think so. It's more that we think they might be able to defend themselves because 90% of men are stronger than 90% of women.

Even when asleep?

Women assaulting men is seldom reported. Even on this thread some posters have posted that assault on men by women is irrelevant/ immaterial because the vast majority of people attacked are women.

And this is seriously problematic

They're being drugged into sleeping through a sexual assault?

i think this thread is unclear? The Andy carrol case was assault by a man?

and then in a known mysogentic forum the discussion veers away from that to “ah but women do assault men too”

not saying it doesn’t happen but I am saying this feels more lke distraction than a serious attempt to talk about a problem

The point is the initial assault is brief because they can end it as soon as it happens (unless they are drugged of course). Unlike women.