To think some online dating SA victims need to take more responsibility for their choices?

[Iatethelastbiscuit]

Last night I watched a bbc documentary about the high number of sexual assaults that occur on dates from app dating sites like Tinder. It’s horrific obviously and I’m not victim blaming here but some of these young women will chat to a guy for a few days then invite him over to their house or go to his house for a date. In the doc there was a lot of talk about how apps can keep women safe (annoyingly they kept saying “keep people safe” when we all know it’s women who are at risk), suggesting the apps do stuff like age verification and run background checks on every member. Never once was it mentioned that it might be a good idea if women took a bit of responsibility for their own safety. Eg. Some basic safety tips like meet in a public place, don’t invite a total stranger over to your house etc. The fact that all the women who were sexually assaulted in this doc had done this was quietly ignored. Are people so paranoid of looking like they’re victim-blaming these days that they’re ignoring the most basic safety rules?! No it’s not a woman’s fault if she’s assaulted but young women need to be learning how to stay safe. There will always be predators out there, that’s not going to magically change if an app brings in background checks (which won’t make a difference for most anyway). Women need to learn how to stay safe and the bbc needs to not be so woke that they’re too afraid to give women safety tips for fear of looking like they’re victim blaming!!

There is a wider question of why we continue teaching women "how to be safe" instead of teaching men not to rape. This is story as old as time and, in fact, the Yorkshire Reaper documentary on Netflix explores this topic in some detail.
Women don't need to be told how to keep safe because we've been told that throughout our lives (just look at the thread where a 4-year-old was told to wear a bikini top at the swimming pool).
Inviting someone to my house is not an invitation to them to rape me and I shouldn't be living my life expecting sexual assault. More work needs to be done with young men (by men!) - that is the answer.
I am not against common sense, I don't negate the need for women to protect themselves. I just don't think this should be a default setting in modern society. I think the default setting should be for men not to attack women. And documentaries like that need to raise awareness amongst men that this is not acceptable. They don't need to raise awareness among women how to protect ourselves. We are sick to our teeth by being told that from cradle.

Appalling victim blaming. YABVVVU.

Stop victim blaming.

ETA and although yes, the overwhelming number of victims are women, gay men also are at risk. My son was beaten up quite badly by a man he met on a dating app. Completely unprovoked.

do you think we should tell women not to wear short skirts as well ? We should be able to invite anyone we like into our home without worrying about being assaulted.

“I’m not victim blaming” - proceeds to victim blame. Okay

SEXUAL ASSAULT PREVENTION TIPS:

1. Do not put drugs in people's drinks.

1. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone.

1. If you pull over to help someone whose car has broken down, remember not to sexually assault them.

1. If you are in an elevator and someone gets in, don't sexually assault them.

1. When you encounter someone who is asleep, the safest course of action is not to sexually assault them.

1. Never creep into someone's home through an unlocked door, window, or spring out at them from between parked cars, or sexually assault them.

1. Use the buddy system! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from sexually assaulting someone, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

1. Carry a whistle. If you find that you are about to sexually assault someone, blow the whistle until someone comes.

We should concentrate more on teaching men not to assault women.
Look at the statistics on how many women are assaulted by people they trusted - partners, friends and family members and you’ll see that safety advice doesn’t go far

It is victim blaming, but it’s a good point. We should be able to leave our front doors open and keys in the car because nobody should steal them. But we live in the world that we live in rather than the one that we wished we did. There are bad people out there (mainly men) and wishing that there wasn’t doesn’t stop it being true. It’s never the victims fault; but learning the importance of locking your car or keeping your front door shut (metaphorically) isn’t a bad idea.

No I 100% blame the men. HTH

I think your thread title is very victim blaming, saying the victims should “take responsibility”.

However, I don’t think that general advice to not go to the home of someone you have only met online is victim blaming. People can say “well men shouldn’t rape”. Of course they shouldn’t. But they do. I wouldn’t not give my DDs basic safety advice because I’ve decided that rape should be solved by teaching men not to do it.

I'm torn. On one hand your post is obvious victim blaming and YABU. On the other hand I'd strongly advise anyone to meet a new online boyfriend OR girlfriend in a public place.

Meeting at someone's home is opening yourself up to any number of possible negative outcomes, including sexual assault, rape, other forms of violence, and indeed being falsely accused of such crimes yourself.

The op isn’t victim blaming imo, just saying that women in particular should be more aware of what might happen if they invite a man they barely know into their home or visit that man’s home. Yes, it should be possible to not expect to be sexually assaulted but unfortunately that’s the reality and I’m old enough to not feel optimistic that anything will change in the future, especially with all the online porn etc that is easily available to men, starting from a young age.

Thank you, I love this. Exactly why can’t we see more posters like this in men’s toilets? (Not that I go into them, but I can’t imagine this is being done)

We should be, but realistically we’re not.
I think that is what OP is saying.
We live in the real world and unfortunately it’s not pretty.

Of course I agree about educating men but it’s not enough (rapists know rape is a crime already, surely?)
I’d still be advising women not to go home with strangers, not to put themselves at unnecessary risk.

So tragic that it is always the woman's responsibility to ensure that she isn't sexually assaulted. Agree with everything that @dreamingofgoodhair posted.

You cannot live in a world as if it was a utopia. Yes - we should be able to walk down the streets naked and be able to leave our houses unlocked etc.
but we don’t live in that world. We live in a world where cruel, vicious people exist. We should be addressing base cause, whilst also safeguarding ourselves while our utopia is in the making.

I definitely will be teaching my daughter how to be safe. I’m certainly not relying on the fact it shouldn’t happen.

More than one thing can be true at once. Yes, rape is a heinous crime and men shouldn’t rape, but going to an unknown man’s house, or inviting him to yours, is risky. One of the many potentially dangerous things that I choose not to do.

As an aside, the police really need to address the appalling situation whereby only a tiny percentage of rapes ever result in convictions.

Do women have to take any responsibility for the actions of men? No.
Is it a woman's fault if a man assaults her? Also no.

Should people assess risk in their lives and plan/adjust accordingly?

Yes. I think everyone should be taught how to properly risk assess and apply that to all parts of their lives. We do it without thinking every time we cross a road, for example. It's not hard.

There is no reason we cannot do it in all situations.

You are not any less harmed by something done to you if it wasn't your fault. Judging risk and acting accordingly to try to reduce risk is just sensible.

People often react badly to analogies along the lines of a house or car being broken into because women arent objects / property and i agree. We are far more important and valuable than a tv set or a car radio and we owe it to ourselves to make good choices. That does not mean that getting assaulted is our own fault even if we do exercise poor judgement, it just means that we owe it to ourselves to try to protect ourselves as best we can.

I don't dispute that. I dispute the OP's comment that this should be explicitly said by the BBC. Women know! We are already being told that without a tv program patronising us further.
Some women can still make an unwise decision despite knowing all the safety precautions. That's their prerogative but let's not pretend that we are so naive that we need to be told (again!) how to be safe. Focus on the problem at hand - violent men.

Victims should try harder not to be victims.

Criminals will be criminals and they don't have to take responsibility because they are criminals.

You're getting a hammering here OP but the fact is that noone ever thinks it'll happen to them until it does. In respect to the content of the programme that was definitely the case.

Given the amount of information available on the internet, social media etc women should be more aware of the implications of bringing a male (relative) stranger into their personal spaces.

Is it really victim shaming to suggest, and actually expect, that women carefully consider what they're doing especially when hormones and booze come into play.

Before the "women shouldn't need to do this" brigade start I agree, BUT there's a big difference between the ways things are and the way they should be.

If you leave your car keys in the ignition and the door unlocked whilst you go shopping for 2 hours, it increases the risk of a "bad person" (probably a man) stealing the car. It's not your fault that the bad man stole the car, but you should at least be aware of the increased risk. If you invite a man you barely know into your home, or you visit his home, it increases the risk of sexual assault. It's not your fault you were sexually assaulted, but, surely, you should be aware of the increased risk? There are steps that can be taken to minimise the risk in both cases. I also 100% blame the men. HTH.

I really don’t see how your suggestions help. While meeting in public can be a sensible thing to do at first, at some point every interaction can’t be in public. What would change? They were assaulted on the 3rd or 4th date instead of the 1st or 2nd? Is that better? Does it make you more sympathetic?

@dreamingofgoodhair
👏 👏

The first reply nails it as usual.
Most women will be unable to stop if a man is insistent in assaulting her. We are smaller and weaker than men by default.
The problem is MEN, the choices they make because they're taught by society they can do no wrong, and not women. How could I defend myself from being attacked or abused, never finding myself alone with a man, ever? Then I'd never have met my dh, no babies would ever be born, etc. It's ridiculous to suggest women are to blame for the actions of men.