To think some online dating SA victims need to take more responsibility for their choices?

[Iatethelastbiscuit]

Last night I watched a bbc documentary about the high number of sexual assaults that occur on dates from app dating sites like Tinder. It’s horrific obviously and I’m not victim blaming here but some of these young women will chat to a guy for a few days then invite him over to their house or go to his house for a date. In the doc there was a lot of talk about how apps can keep women safe (annoyingly they kept saying “keep people safe” when we all know it’s women who are at risk), suggesting the apps do stuff like age verification and run background checks on every member. Never once was it mentioned that it might be a good idea if women took a bit of responsibility for their own safety. Eg. Some basic safety tips like meet in a public place, don’t invite a total stranger over to your house etc. The fact that all the women who were sexually assaulted in this doc had done this was quietly ignored. Are people so paranoid of looking like they’re victim-blaming these days that they’re ignoring the most basic safety rules?! No it’s not a woman’s fault if she’s assaulted but young women need to be learning how to stay safe. There will always be predators out there, that’s not going to magically change if an app brings in background checks (which won’t make a difference for most anyway). Women need to learn how to stay safe and the bbc needs to not be so woke that they’re too afraid to give women safety tips for fear of looking like they’re victim blaming!!

We all have to take precautions to stay safe - doing that is not victim blaming, it is accepting there are bad people out there who are looking for people in a situations they can take advantage of. Advising someone to stay safe is not the same a blaming them when they get attacked.

Unfortunately you seem to have overlooked the simple case that by saying the victim could/should have changed anything about their decisions prior to an attack, you are victim blaming.

Yes, basic safety awareness should be common sense, but in absolutely no way should there be an assumption that inviting someone to your house is an invitation to SA. Whether it is the first, or tenth time they have met.

The priority absolutely has to be on teaching men to act respectfully, and punishing those who are aggressors. It isn't hard, there are thankfully now numerous examples of men in the media showing how they can approach women appropriately and respectfully. We need to promote this heavily, rather than the other side which is getting far too much attention.

We should not be attacking those who have been victims of SA, who no doubt will already be blaming and questioning their own choices endlessly.

Don't be ridiculous.
In an ideal world we would be free to walk anywhere without getting raped/attacked/run over.

But its not like that- so we live with what we have.
if you don't teach your daughters to look after themselves because 'we shouldn't have to' then bad shit will unfortunately happen because bad people are out there.
Be responsible for yourself.

Maybe young women should be chaparoned by a male familiy member at all times until they (not her) are happy with her choice of romantic partner?!

Or could we, as a country, start actually criminalising rape, by actually proscuting for it, and thus not giving men the message that they are 98% likely to get away with what they do (pretty good odds for getting their rocks off the way THEY want to!!).

Internet dating is the norm and the expectation now, and not going down that route is a hard and slow way to find a romantic partner. If a man is determined to assault a women, i'm pretty sure he could manage to maintain his manners for a couple of public dates and then assault her anyway.

You are victim blaming and you bizarrely assume men aren’t ever victims of SA.

YABVU and rather dim.

@Paganpentacle so why doesn't "be responsible for yourself" apply to men then?

Very few people are suggesting that we don't apply common sense and take risk avoidance measures by viewing every single man we come into contact with as a potential assailant / thief / rapist / attacker / assaulter. However, what many of us are suggesting is that we are failing to address the fact that the bad things are happening to women, because of men's behaviour and their inability to be responsible for themselves.

Do you seriously think it’s unknown information that it’s riskier to invite a man to your house than it is to meet them publically?

You seriously think a documentary should focus on this basic advice rather than exploring the real issue of men using technology to facilitate assault?

what is it, basics week?

Maybe if we didn’t compare people’s bodies to property we might have a chance of teaching young men not rape.

In sympathy with the women who are victims of this sort of thing - they are living in a culture where going home with a man you hardly know is normalised, even expected. A woman who finds herself being raped in the house of a near-stranger may have gone to plenty of near-strangers' houses before without any problems.

I am however generally of the view that teaching women to avoid being in these situations at all is not victim blaming. "Teaching men" usually seems to mean rubbish about "consent workshops". These have been going on for over a decade now and do not seem to have led to a decrease in rapes, because men who rape are not silly ignorant little boys who just haven't received enough moral education, they're monsters who know rape is bad and don't care. They aren't going to change their minds because they've been to a seminar. The best solutions to the rape crisis are proper jail terms and/or castration.

You can't prevent all rape. You can reduce your own personal risk, however, while still living your life.

I don't want to live in a society that says women have to cover up and never go anywhere unaccompanied etc, and that it's their fault if they're raped.

But I agree with the op that giving a few safety tips like don't go to a strange man's house is simply common sense and is not victim blaming. It's like telling tourists to be careful of pickpockets etc. Simple advice that doesn't stop you from living your life.

And of course it's not going to keep you 100% safe, that's impossible in the world we live in, but you will be marginally safer at minimal cost to yourself.

Of course, there is no justification for being raped. It's always the perpetrator's fault. But potential victims can sometimes reduce risk, and I think that it's important to do, where possible. I certainly wouldn't recommend my adult children go home with a total stranger, for instance, and I'd discourage them from getting drunk in social situations. None of that removes risk, but it's something that can lower it.

Yep, also at some point if any relationship is going to progress then it will need to be in private, it can't stay public forever.

Back in the 'no sex before marriage' era, men still sexually assualted their romantic partners, they just had to wait until after the wedding by which point the women was completely trapped.

"It doesn't matter how successful or accomplished or brilliant you are as a woman, you are only as safe as your male partner allows you to be" Cheryl Giovannoni (Chief Execuative of the Girls' day school trust).

You get more and more ridiculous.

Cars and pedestrians both have rights and needs to move, so we arranged a system where pedestrians can cross safely and both follow rules to give each other safe passage.

There is no equivalent right for anyone to sexually assault that needs to be accommodated alongside women's right to safety. It's an absurd and incredibly creepy comparison if you truly can't see the difference. The equivalent would be a car driving on the pavement where it's never, ever got the right to do that.

Stay away from people.

YABVU

Sexual abusers groom people into a false sense of security. They’re clever and it absolutely happens to boys and men too.

I agree.

I would like a curfew for men, only allowed out after say 6pm on certain nights. Drastic yes but until they take some responsibility for the actions of themselves and other men it's deserved. Idea inspired by the suggested curfew for women response to the Peter Sutcliffe murders.

The prisons are full, they are so full OF MEN they might use the women's prisons, of which I think there are only 12 out of 117 to house them. Politicians know men are the problem, everyone knows it. Strategies aren't working. One half of the population moderates its behaviour day in day out to keep safe from the other, because they can't be trusted. So yeah, I am open to drastic ideas to curtail men's freedoms for a change.

This OP risks straying into the innocent and not innocent victim territory.

When the "married at first sight" allegations came out, people wanted to hold the TV companies responsible, as if it could be predicted. What kind of society are we in where we can't assume a man can be left alone with a woman without him raping her?

It is horrible to be assaulted by someone you thought you were sure of. They should be punished properly.

But still… ALL people should be wary of strangers. All the education in the world is not going to ensure that every single adult male is respectful and decent. A predator will prey - and telling women to abandon all “spider sense” because it’s somehow more feminist to rely on the law and consent etc is dangerous and foolhardy.

Teach women to avoid sexual assault by not being in relationships, having brothers, stepfathers, uncles, teachers, sports coaches, neighbours, colleagues, friends…

Teach women to avoid sexual assault by not being in places where men are like houses or offices or cars or streets or cemeteries or bars or churches.

Teach women to avoid sexual
assault by not wearing sexy outfits, or workwear, or ski suits, or sportswear, or nightwear or gardening clothes.

Teach women to… sorry, what? Turns out you can’t teach women to avoid sexual assault by doing anything at all.

Of course it does.
But you can only be responsible for yourself.

This is very true.

You are way more likely ( think it’s like 90%) to be raped by someone you know than a stranger.

I still think we should do things by keeping ourselves safe but it will still always be the rapists fault regardless.

Read your last line again.

That's the entire point.... stay away from people.
Understand?

You can have ALL the rights you want... but until everyone respects them there will still be danger.

More than 40 years ago as a young woman living in West Yorkshire at the height of the ripper murders, I took part in Reclaim the Night protests/marches. At the time police had advised women not to go out after dark. The suggestion that men shouldn't do so clearly hadn't occurred to the police. How sad that we haven't moved on in decades in terms of the onus being on women to mitigate mens behaviour.

I am constantly advising my teen sons about personal safety…not to go to unsafe places or be around unsafe people.
Not that they listen, but it’s wrong to think only women are being told to protect themselves.

You are victim blaming though. Your wording that women should take “responsibility” for being sexually assaulted is the definition of victim blaming.

I'm telling you to stay away from people because you think sexual assault is like legally driving a car.

And if the driver thinks he can't be trusted not to mount the pavement and run people over just because it's there, yes, he should stay away from people. And if he doesn't, and mounts the pavement, we don't start blaming the pedestrians for not staying away from him, and blethering about how they must take some blame because not everyone respects their right not to be mown down on the pavement. The duty to stay away is his.

It's clear you don't understand this and think you are being very clever rather than unbelievably creepy. You. Stay away from people.

No, not responsibility for being assaulted, but responsibility for personal safety .

A crime is a crime, but I’d rather avoid the chance of crime. Of course it’s tragic that women (and in some instances men) have to factor in the chance of danger, but better to be cautious than assaulted or dead.