To think some online dating SA victims need to take more responsibility for their choices?

[Iatethelastbiscuit]

Last night I watched a bbc documentary about the high number of sexual assaults that occur on dates from app dating sites like Tinder. It’s horrific obviously and I’m not victim blaming here but some of these young women will chat to a guy for a few days then invite him over to their house or go to his house for a date. In the doc there was a lot of talk about how apps can keep women safe (annoyingly they kept saying “keep people safe” when we all know it’s women who are at risk), suggesting the apps do stuff like age verification and run background checks on every member. Never once was it mentioned that it might be a good idea if women took a bit of responsibility for their own safety. Eg. Some basic safety tips like meet in a public place, don’t invite a total stranger over to your house etc. The fact that all the women who were sexually assaulted in this doc had done this was quietly ignored. Are people so paranoid of looking like they’re victim-blaming these days that they’re ignoring the most basic safety rules?! No it’s not a woman’s fault if she’s assaulted but young women need to be learning how to stay safe. There will always be predators out there, that’s not going to magically change if an app brings in background checks (which won’t make a difference for most anyway). Women need to learn how to stay safe and the bbc needs to not be so woke that they’re too afraid to give women safety tips for fear of looking like they’re victim blaming!!

I blame widespread availability of porn. It encourages a warped view on what women want sexually and consent.
Regarding the personal safety angle as a woman of 20 years old (I'm 43 now) I would not have, say, walked through Bradford City Centre at 2am because there are bloody dangerous folks out there.
I cannot imagine meeting someone I'd met online, it could be absolutely anyone.
Just be careful out there, keep your wits about you. Of course men should not assault, drug and rape but unfortunately I don't believe this will ever be the case.

So by that logic, if I find a repairman on Google and he comes to my house to repair something but ends up attacking me then I have failed to apply basic safety precautions? It is actually the same thing. A victim of SA from a dating app may not have consented to any sexual contact in the same way that I haven’t by merely inviting a repairman to come and fix something.

Women shouldn’t have to take responsibility for mens behaviour. Theres no sharing the blame in sexual assualt but I don’t think thats what Op is saying. It’s frustration at not using your common sense to look out for yourself. If you invite someone to your home or go to their home and they hurt you obviously it is their fault entirely, that doesn’t mean you are any less hurt. It’s the same risk assessment you should take about anything.

BUT I would tell my DD “don’t leave your drink unattended” “always meet in a public place” “tell your friends where you are and check in” etc etc.

There is no way in hell I would invite a man back to my house until I knew him very well. I have been stalked before and it was horrible so yeah I’m paranoid but even if a man doesn’t physically harm you you could end up with someone turning up out of the blue, watching you etc etc.

For those who say this is victim blaming may I ask why we, at least on MN, advise women not to move men into their homes when they have young children? “An unrelated male is a huge risk to your children, why would you move them in?”

My mum has been saying this for years. Don’t go out on your own after dark, don’t go to a strangers house, just take some responsibility and don’t put yourself in situations that could be dangerous, willingly. No one has ever said you deserve to be assaulted if you do these things or that it’s your fault it happened, because it’s really not, but we can take steps to keep ourselves safer.

that being said, men should not rape or sexually assault women. Full stop. No matter what.

Rapists know rape is a crime. But I bet you that people who raped these women did not know that what they were doing was rape (and I am not using it as an excuse, just highlighting how cases like this still happen). The received an invite to their house and assumed consent.
Educating people about what consent means is a relatively new thing and is a step in the right direction. If anything, I'd like the BBC talk about that in their programmes, not remind women to check the back seat of their car before they get in.

If you had met someone online had some chats felt comfortable enough to either go to his or invite him to yours and then he raped you. Would that be your fault or his? Did you ask for it or would you assume you were safe because you didn’t feel like there were any red flags and felt comfortable?

Men need to do the work we’ve carried this shit long enough.

@Catza I'm sorry but where are you living or have you been living? I'm in my mid 50s, was a teenager in the 1980s and was fully aware back then of what consent was, as was my mother who was born in the mid 1930s!!!!!! "No" used to be known as a form of contraception back in the day.

I don’t agree.
Most of the time they know already.
No excuses.

Education around consent is welcome of course, particularly around (previously) grey areas when people were drunk or drunkish.

Well best advice has always been that if yoi are meeting someone for the first time, make sure you tell a friend/family member and always meet in a public place.
Its really not that difficult to take steps to ensure your own safety!!!

Appalling victim blaming.

Hope this hasn't triggered anyone who has seen it.

Will report.

This. Of course no one should be assaulted, but I taught my daughter to also protect herself. To take sensible precautions.

Are you a woman? I am also aware of what consent is. That is not in question. Even looking at this thread, all we can see is "I tell my daughter...". Not a single person came here to say "I talk to my son about this".
We were also not taught about it at school. And we definitely weren't taught that consent needs to be ongoing and enthusiastic and can be withdrawn at any point.

They aren't alternatives. Men need to stop abusing women and women need to recognise that there are dangers around and protect themselves. Omitting to do this is like walking on to a crossing when the green light starts without checking the traffic, as though being legally in the right means there are no dangerous drivers.

if you step onto a pedestrian crossing and a car hits you it’s not your fault, should you just walk on to a crossing without looking…of course not. There are so many things in daily life where we adjust behaviour to keep ourselves safe. As someone upthread said we live in a world where people choose to do horrible things. Even if all men are taught not to do these things sadly some still will. People break rules all the time. I don’t think it it wrong to tell women to look after themselves. Why does it have to be either or.

But you are victim blaming. Just because my husband was someone I’d known for years and had children with didn’t mean I was safe from the SA he put my through for the final year of our marriage.
Maybe men should be taught that they aren’t entitled to it even if they have been invited in for a coffee

If you think OP is victim blaming you have missed her point.

It’s not the victims fault, whether she met him at 2pm at a busy cafe or invited him into her home at night. But I get what you’re saying.
If my teen is coming home late, I always tell him to get a taxi or ask me to come meet him. Now and then he doesn’t, and when he’s home safe and tells me this, I chastise him. If he was attacked, that would 100% not be his fault. But I don’t want him exposed to that risk to start with.

That's terrible but not what OP was talking about. Victims of DA can be unable sometimes for decades to speak out or get help. OP is talking about avoiding casual assault from near-strangers.

What is "casual assault" @comeoncolleen ?

“I’m not victim blaming here” … continues to victim blame. YABU

It drives me mad when people want to restrict women's lives rather than dealing with the culture that creates a situation where so many men are a threat. E.g. there's apparently a flasher in our local woods atm and the response from so many people is women shouldn't go there alone. There's a part of me that thinks these threats are sometimes invented with the actual purpose of restricting women's lives.

To be clear, I did talk to my son about consent and to not ever, coerce, force or convince a girl to have sex with him. I taught my daughter to take sensible precautions, and to never give into pressure.

I also taught him and my daughter about safe sex.

Most of us did try.

I think there are two things being confused here - recommending safety advice in advance and pointing out that someone didn't follow that advice and was assaulted.

The first seems sensible and the second is victim blaming.

I see what previous posters mean about the thread sounding like victim blaming BUT I would still advise women to meet a man in public first and not go to his home unless you had met up outside multiple times.
A number of my friends at uni had awful experiences with men they had met in a club and then gone home with. It emerged later that one of those men was a convicted sex offender. My friend sensed something was off about him and thankfully didn't come to any harm. The fault of this behaviour is 100% on the men, no question. I would never blame or shame my female friends for a frightening or degrading experience with a man.

But I would equally say that hookup culture and going home with an unknown man, whether you met him in a bar or on an app, opens up women to a whole world of risks. It is totally disingenuous to say otherwise

It's somehow become unacceptable to say this in more liberal and progressive circles that I've tended to move in but it's an unpopular opinion I won't budge on. We don't live in a utopia and there are some very bad men out there.