How do I repair things after shouting at my teenager in public?

[Pumpkinlatte1235]

I know I’m in the wrong, how do I move forward?

holiday with extended family, teenager (14) and ND / tourettes 11 year old who was been extremely dysregulated all holiday so I spent most of it in air conditioned room with him. it’s been hard work to say the least. Teenager (14) has been very very sullen for 2nd half of the week; sleeping late, refusing anytime with family, glued to phone. Typical for a teenager I guess. Got very angry with me mid -week for being in room all the time with his brother, saying I prefer him. I completely understand his feelings but I also know he deep down knows it’s not true and when he’s very dysregulated as he has been this week, only I can keep him clam. Not a defence, more just a context. Last few days all my teenager muttered was to tell me to f-off, ignored extended family and generally behaved like Kevin And Perry. Throughout the week I kept asking if something was bothering him and he kept all saying no, he’s just had enough of me looking after his brother all the time and I am annoying.

FF to travel home day and I was beyond stressed at airport- flight delayed, younger DS dysregulated beyond belief, awful unexpected heavy period for me leaving me with the energy of a slug and I asked kids to go and grab me a bottle of water. Within 2 mins youngest came out shop crying saying older brother had hit him and laughed at him for his tics. Given the behaviour the last week I believed this and saw red. I marched into the shop where teenager was loading up snacks for
the flight and told him he wasn’t having any given his behaviour. He smirked and carried on picking them up and I’m ashamed to say I grabbed them out his hands and put them back on the shelf. I walked out the shop and as I turned round he mouthed at me “F- you” and I just lost it, I raised my voice and shouted F-you, I’ve had enough of your silent mouthed swear words at me and your smirks. The only way you will listen is if I shout it out loud and embarrass you. He started to cry and he stopped mouthing swear words at me but hasn’t spoken to me since.
i know what i did was awful. I am mortified. I’ve tried apologising and he won’t hear it. how do I repair this?

At 14, when he’s had 10 years of coming a long way second in the family?

Yes, it would be great if he “understood the nuance” but I think that’s a huge ask for a young teen who’s had to deal with this for over a decade.

I understand your reaction but I think you should also research the term ‘glass child’.

I have a NT child, and my youngest was born with a congenital defect which caused a few health conditions which take up a lot of focus. I was introduced to this term by a friend when it became obvious to her my middle son wasn’t getting the same amount of attention, which whilst completely subconscious is still damaging and upsetting for them. I put things in place family wise to ensure this stopped and he gets his fair share of parental involvement and attention and it was massive for him.

What happened with your teen?

I’ve been watching this conversation since my previous post and reading your posts @Pumpkinlatte1235 and I found myself wondering about a couple of things compared to my own experience. They might not be relevant at all and you might have explored them already so feel free to ignore me completely but,

Do you think there’s any chance that your oldest is actually really worried about his brother and is feeling excluded and helpless around the care of his brother in your home in a way that’s making him act like this? You say that he’s caring towards him and that he helps him when they’re at their dad’s but you also say that you are the only person who can Co-regulate with your youngest and that DS1 is not involved in this when they’re with you.

lt’s not DS1s responsibility to care for his brother BUT if he’s seen a massive deterioration in his brother over the last year, and is witnessing his brother coming to harm, or possibly worse, being kept away from his brother when he’s like that and not really knowing what’s happening, then that is going to be upsetting and unsettling for DS1.

If DS1 is able to support his brother when they’re at their dad’s, and if DS2 is able to mask more at his dad’s, then it’s likely that your eldest spends all his time running catalogue on his brother when they’re there and adapting things he has any control over, and he may well have spotted triggers, or early signs of overwhelm, that you haven’t and he might be looking at how you are dealing with your youngest and feeling that there are things you could do differently that would improve the situation for all of you which will only increase his frustration with you.

I’ve asked my kids about each other when I’ve been struggling to workout the cause of an issue and often they’ve helped me find some ways forward. Their views and thoughts are valued, they feel good because they helped their sibling, and life improves for everyone because I have a better handle on an issue. The responsibility to ‘fix’ things remains mine but my kids know that I’m always open to their observations.

Maybe a conversation like
”DS1 I know you really care for your brother and that you do a lot to try and support him when I’m not around so I was wondering if you’d noticed any signs I might be missing of when he’s starting to struggle? I’d like to get better at helping DS2 to learn how to prevent his meltdowns because they’re distressing for all of us and can really ruin our plans but I don’t think I’m doing a very good job of noticing early warning signs right now so would love to know if you’re seeing things I’m not.”

He might refuse to talk, he might get angry and unload all his thoughts on you in a way that you might feel is rude, but he probably has lots of useful things to say if he can get them out and you can really hear them, and feeling involved in the solution rather than excluded from the problem might be a powerful thing for him.

My other thought on this is, have you ever had a family meeting about this? Have you sat together over snacks, all three of you, and discussed the situation. Have you stated your expectations to both boys that your job is to help them grow up into responsible adults, that you expect them both to be good people, to care for those around them and to have all the opportunities in the world. Have you told them both that while support will be provided for all their needs, and that might look different for each of them at different times, you love them both dearly and you care about them both, but you expect them both to show you and each other the same kind of care and respect?

I ask this because sometimes we forget to say these things out loud and just assume our kids know them and often, in situations such as these, they get lost behind the necessary caring and the expectations around behaviour and support for others begin to sit on only one child, the one not being ‘cared’ for which feels like further unfairness to them.

The first time I said to one of my kids who was being a pain on a day out “I’m pretty experienced now at spotting the difference between autism and misbehaviour and we both know which one this is” was a revelation to me and to my kids because all three of them heard it and took a mental step back. It put a line in the sand that while I would care for their needs and fight for their right to accommodations and support I was not going to accept misbehaviour from any of them. Your older son needs to know that outside of the uncontrolled behaviour within a meltdown your behaviour expectations are the same for both of them AND that you are working with DS2 to reduce uncontrolled meltdowns in the first place.

like I said above please feel free to ignore everything I’ve written here if you don’t think it’s relevant to your situation.

My advice is to stop apologising now. Accept that the older boy intends to be civil in his interactions with you, which after all, will be an improvement. He is now enjoying watching you become ever more desperate for his forgiveness and enjoying withholding that even more. You are feeding that.

Let everything settle down into a day to day normal and eventually he will forget/grow out of his current attitude.

@Pumpkinlatte1235 it sounds really stressful. Poster before me has great ideas. I dont want to seem unkind as I don't know how often you have to deal with meltdowns or what % of every day is normal (meaning no issues to deal with and the 3 of you can do things together). But assuming its hardly ever and the burden is too high - have Specialists ever mentioned or suggested a care home for him on any level ? I know no-one that loves their child wants to think about that but if its ever been mentioned it could mean the levels are so high that it needs consideration. Do you feel you have a life too? Or is your sole existence a caring role ? Those are 2 very different things but important to distinguish....not the point of tye thread so not expecting a response but just wanted to put it out there . If 2 people are miserable out of 3 ...that's a different thing entirely to down days amd up days for all

Op not sure if you've ever looked into this but read up on Glass Child Syndrome - I think a few things will clique and be really insightful and help you

Very long story but in short:

• we were super close til he was around 12
• puberty hit him like a train and before friends/ older brother so he was all at sea
• his dad’s alcoholism and drug taking got extreme (we separated when I was pregnant) and DS didn’t know how to cope with big feelings
• i was his safe person so he took things out on me
• he suffered anxiety & depression while being outwardly very social
• he got into things he shouldn’t eg weed
• I took the approach of negotiating with him and giving him the freedom he asked for because we had been so close and I thought he’d respond better if I treated him in a more adult way - big mistake
• he got unhappier and angrier and moved out of home making himself homeless when I was out one night

it was a terrible, terrible time. I didn’t know what to do. I’ve never been authoritarian and tried to work with him but in retrospect should’ve been firmer. He’s 23 and back to being the loveliest, loveliest person now - has been for a few years - and we are all super close as a family. We’ve discussed at length and in part he’s said there’s not much I could’ve done because he was so angry at the world because of his dad and some other stuff that went on, but that while he would’ve kicked against it stronger boundaries and rules with me would’ve helped him given everything was so chaotic with his wife beating dad.

I don’t think you did anything that bad and I would be grateful the little shit wasn’t talking to me. He’s acted disgustingly. Hopefully he realises you’ve had enough, don’t suck up to him, he’s already controlling the whole family dynamic. He’ll need you before you need him. I’ve had 2 teenagers who are now adults by the way and I certainly would have told one of them to F off if they carried on like yours did and I wouldn’t have bought their sweets either. Remember in here there are people that wouldn’t dream of saying the f word so that will skew how they see this.

🤷🏼‍♀️ This! ☝️
He’s had a really shit time & you haven’t listened to him at all - he feels understandably neglected & his hormones (which he can’t help) have meant he’s been moody & rude about it but you’re the parent here - he’s just a kid.

Well of course

I really love it when the overwhelming advice on a thread about a sullen, sulky, disengaged teen is for 'therapy'. Like a) its not going to magically fix something anyway b) teens would rather gouge their own eyes out than sit in 'therapy'

And sorry to say, therapy doesnt do anything for 'shit life syndrome' which is a lt of what is being described here. High needs household, little solution.

Absolutely, up thread somewhere someone said that OP was 'dysregulated', she certainly wasnt. She was parenting and got angry. Use your anger sometimes is relevant to this.

Also, lots of people have to deal with shitty circumstances. Lots of people grow up in poverty or with disabled parents and have to act as a child carer. It isn’t fair on them and it isn’t right but it is what it is. You feel bad about it which shows you care, you’re on holiday which shows you’re giving them the best childhood you can and they’re not in poverty (especially if you can afford airport sweets 😂) some of the greatest people on earth came from difficult backgrounds, it’s strengthened them and drove them to reach their goals. You are trying your best, most teenagers are hard work and this will pass. This might not be anything to do with dealing with a disabled sibling, this may just be a rude, entitled teenager! My daughter has a disabled sibling and I can see that it’s hard for her. Guess what? It’s hard for me too and she’ll just have to get on with it, they’re the cards we were dealt and whilst I make every effort to ensure she isn’t doing anything she shouldn’t have to and talk to her about understanding it’s hard it’s ultimately just tough and it certainly could be worse. Hopefully she’ll grow up more empathetic, more understanding and more resilient.

This this this.

Don't be hard on yourself, the trouble with too many kids today is that parents do pussyfoot about and don't give them a bollocking when it's deserved. The amount of people in this thread that don't seem to realise that putting kids on pedestals and bowing down and begging their forgiveness is why kids are running riot! His behaviour was crappy and you rightfully called him out on his because you are a good parent that wants to raise decent humans. In the town where i live a 13 year old put a families window in for 6 week holiday fun, the mother admitted on the community post it was her son but blamed all his mates rather than him, people asked her if she was going to discipline him and she she would of she sees him but didn't know where he was - 13 years old and she doesn't even know where he was at 11pm! That's bad parenting, not teaching your son to have respect for others! You did nothing wrong!

I think you’re doing ok!
You snapped at DS1 because of his bad behaviour, which is partly because he’s a teenager, and partly because he does feel second priority at times and it’s probably hard for him to make sense of everything at 14. Him feeling like that is understandable and you’ve been trying to rectify that by offering to spend time with him. (Not just on holiday but other times as well).

He doesn’t take you up on that because he would rather be doing other things - also completely understandable - but it’s important you keep offering and letting him know how much you love him. It’s a stressful situation for everyone.

Is there anything else you can do? You have one son who needs a lot of time, you’ve apologised to DS1, you regularly offer to spend time with him, you’re doing your best, he’s going through a rebellious teenage phase. Not easy but some of this sounds fairly normal. Stop over apologising. Keep offering to spend time with him, perhaps find things he would really like to do or go to. Keep telling him how much you love him.

I guess holidays like that aren’t a good idea at the moment and yes perhaps separate time with you/ their dad might work now and again if that can be arranged.

She literally stated that she offered to do many activities with him and he refused. You do gooders hate saying boo to your own kids and that's why society is a mess!

I have a 13 Yr old daughter, and learning how to adjust to her changing is hard, and that's without a second child to consider. What I do know is that your teen was communicating very clearly - they really want more time with you. Time just for the two of you. Time where they can feel as loved and important as you make the younger child feel.
Becoming a teen is hard- starting to become your own person, but at the same time still very much need parental support.
What this holiday has told your teen is that they are not important, not worthy of spending time with. You asked them what was the matter was, they told you ....and yet it still became their fault.
Please find some time to repair this relationship.
This does not mean they get to be mean to their sibling, but it does mean that they realise they can still be loved even when they mess up. Notice the good things they do. Create a time, or activity, that is just for them. The actions don't have to be huge, just consistent. When encouraging talk choose somewhere that eye contact is not needed - like in the car- to take the pressure off.
If the only attention they get from you is negative attention then that is still better than no attention. They will continue to create stress so they they feel noticed

Youngest only became extremely dysregulated/severe tics in last year, prior to that yes he was ND but nothing “extreme” or necessitating 121 co-regulation.

So can I understand that up until the last year, your younger son was able to go to school, was not smearing faeces, his needs had a much smaller impact on the household? And in the last year following a virus, your household is now dominated by your youngest’s needs?

If that’s correct I would be asking whether anything else changed or happened a year ago to make his behaviour change in this extreme way. I’ve seen many ND children who coped well at primary school start to really struggle at secondary, but the smearing seem particularly unusual at this older age. I also agree with pp who point out that ND children can work out the best ways for them to get the attention they want from the adults around them. Please note, I am not saying your youngest is putting it on or anything like that.
I work with ND young adults and some of them explain that they make the most of support that’s been put in place, even if they see themselves as actually capable of managing without it. (Again, I’m not saying this is a problem. Just that NT people may think that a support measure is indispensable when it isn’t, always.)
In other cases the young person feels more capable than their parent sees them as, and it’s the parent’s anxiety or need to be the carer that influences things like their use of buses, independent trips out and so on.

If the faeces on the wall, meltdowns etc were happening for more of your elder son’s life it makes the situation a little different than if they started more suddenly a year ago. In that case, he may feel like a so-called “glass child”, with some guilt for feeling resentful.

in the other scenario there may be a suspicion in his mind that his brother has started doing these things to get your full attention, and it’s working. That might provoke more anger and resentment as he may see it as you being fooled or favouring the younger son over him.

i hope you see what I mean, I think the length of time that the younger has needed this intense intervention and exhibited these extreme behaviours may affect how you manage the relationship with your elder son going forward.

That’s actually a good point. Nowadays, people use psychological terminology incorrectly. It pathologises normal responses and feelings. She was understandably angry and at the end of her tether (to many, just being in an airport alone will have this effect). We all get angry. She briefly swore at her swearing teen. Then presumably she composed herself as she has done for the past 14 years.

To all those attacking the OP for daring to discipline her own son, do you think he has a good future ahead of him if he thinks it's ok to be really foul mouthed and defiant! If you don't discipline that behaviour imagine when he's at college or uni or in workplace and swearing, smirking and being defiant towards those above him, especially if they are women! Refusing to discipline kids is why society is wrecked! It's why school holidays are a catalogue of antisocial behaviour and why police custody suites have adolescents screaming and snarling like animals and threatening to kill the coppers because theyve never come up against discipline or had their tempers calmed as kids!

You said that you are able to go to DS1 70-80% of the time he needs you but that is only of the times you KNOW he needs you. I can guarantee there are a lot many more times he needs you but knows there’s no point even asking as you won’t come.

What state would he have to be in for you to ignore DD2 needing you and go to him instead? Can you imagine any situation where you would choose his need over his brother’s? I suspect not, and he knows this.

My mum spent 30 years putting my sibling’s wishes over my needs. Like you she’d say she had no choice and expected me to simply put up with it. Time and again I was desperate to be her priority and I never was. Time alone wasn’t a problem as sibling left home when I was 8 (though woe betide if we spoke about what we got up to without her) it was her continually choosing my sibling above me.

In our case it was a PD and severe jealously rather than disability but at the same time I was an adult when it got bad and it affected our relationship greatly. I realised that whatever happened, and whatever I did, my mother would never choose me over my sibling. I haven’t seen them for 2.5 years. And I am sure my mother has no idea why as she thinks she had no choice and thus did no wrong.

If you don’t start prioritising DS1 occasionally he’ll no doubt go NC as soon as he can. Is that what you want?

Your DS2s needs sound extremely confusing, he constantly bangs his head and smears faeces but then he's ok to go into an airport shop out of your sight and then come back out himself to tell tales on his brother? Those things don't really tally up and I can see why the 14yo feels the way he does about you favouring his brother.

You also start off by saying you didn't see what happened in the shop but then changed your story saying you did see. So some of this isn't adding up.

Perhaps it would be you who needs to go to a (good) therapist, since all you have done throughout this thread is list what you cannot do.

You need to get a list of things you can do, so you can take responsibility for your own behaviour, and stop talking about making your son do things (like forgive you). He doesn't want to forgive you and while you just repeat how you can't do anything differently, I don't see why he should.

You need to find a way to change your relationship. Stop palming him off onto other people, stop asking him to tell you the answer - how on earth should he know? - stop saying 'I can't do anything', stop trying to make him change what he feels. You are the adult. Choose what you can live with.

Not only that, DS2 was ND but without “extreme” issues until the last year, when the nightly shit smearing and daily head banging started. And in the last year, the OP has gained access to psychologist, psychiatrist, therapists and respite.

And he’s easily triggered by sensory issues, which can result in 4 hour meltdowns but fine to go off, out of OP’s sight, in an airport which is noisy, busy, overwhelming.