AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

That would never be allowed to happen, due to ethics.

TBF they did say ‘to a lesser degree’. I think for things like mammograms/gynaecological procedures you get assigned a woman, or at least given the option.

Interesting. When I was a child in the 1960s, my father (born in the 1920s) actively chose the only female GP in the whole town because he thought she would have had to be better and worked a lot harder to become a GP than the men!

I agree if the basis is simply skin colour but I am partially deaf and struggle with understanding strong accents. Both from white and non white staff. And males with very deep voices. I do have NHS hearing aids but they are not really much use!

Stop trying to be woke.

In no other profession would you allow people to insult and abuse you and have to suck it up.

The NHS workers already have to deal with so much.
Why should they have to deal with abuse, that’s not why they went into their profession.

The NHS waiting lists are ridiculously long and most of us are grateful to be seen in a timely manner.

Why are we waiting behind people who are abusing the staff and kicking off because they want a different staff member.

They should absolutely be able to refuse care.
Any profession should be able to refuse service.

Trust me if they were poorly enough they would accept help from anyone.

Stopping as regards recruiting from abroad. NHS patients getting gold standard UK trained staff and making the huge amount of taxpayers money spent on training cost effective should be the absolute priority.

You can’t force someone to have treatment.

If they are refusing then that’s their choice.

No practitioner is going to get into trouble for not forcing treatment on someone.

So how exactly to you force treatment on someone who is refusing to be treated? Because that is what they are doing.

Africa??
I mean 20 ish years ago a lot of doctors agd nurses were coming from South Africa but my understanding is that nowadays they are coming from India, Pakistan etc…?

As fir British people having a chance of getting jobs
1- you realise that some non white people are British yes?
2- the jobs are tyere. The need is here butbthe government is refusing to employ /open jobs that we all scream for. Like GPs. So maybe have a go at the government (conservative or Labour btw) that’s doing its best to privatise the NHS instead?

But the point is, this thread is about discrimination towards NHS workers on the basis of skin colour. Not language, nationality or qualifications etc. So skin colour is absolutely not irrelevant to this discussion - it is central to it.

We are not just talking about people objecting to international staff with strong accents or differences in training etc. We are talking about people refusing treatment because they don't like the colour of the health care practitioner's skin.

People might not want to acknowledge the fact that British health care workers from non-white backgrounds are frequently exposed to horrible discrimination because of their skin colour, despite speaking perfect British English and having completed their training in the UK. That is the reality, and I don't know why some people are so eager to pretend that racism isn't real.

I’m currently at the back of the queue for requesting my internal ultrasound be performed by a woman, the 3rd party service this has been outsourced to don’t employ any women, so I’m back to the NHS who thankfully do have ONE.
I’m livid at whoever decided to outsource without stipulating in the contract that the outsourced provider should be able to provide an equivalent patient choice to the NHS service.
Skin colour/race shouldn’t be a patient choice. There does need to be something in place for deaf old people like my DM who struggles with heavily accented English, particularly with the move to more phone based appointments.

It sounds extreme but I tend to agree. It would take one litigated case, with judges saying the death was caused by a refusal of treatment not a refusal to treat, and the racist bastards might get back in their boxes when they realise it’s do or (literally) die.

our local trust goes on recruitment drives in India for nursing staff. I have moral issues with nicking the expertise of a developing nation but without this recruitment our wards wouldn’t run.

No you can't, which is why the DNR policy is in place. In reality, outside of a recorded DNR, is a patient really going to left to die "in agony".

Abuse and racism is obviously not ok but instantly removing medical treatment for patients is not ok either. Or can we instantly have staff that have provided dire or sub standard care or made mistakes removed too?

Agreed. A good standard of spoken & written English is also important. I have received treatment from HCPs with very strong accents which has made it very difficult to understand. I have received treatment from white British HCPs with really poor written English too. Communication is important both for accuracy & often for patient reassurance. Nevertheless, I am grateful for any NHS treatment.

I have swerved being treated by a black midwife, a black obstetrician and black paediatrician. Not because of the colour of their skin but because they have been dismissive and rude. The obstetrician told me when I asked a question "so you're the expert in the room, not me"?

Similarly I've swerved being treated by white people too. There is a GP at my practice that I will not see and also a practice nurse. There have been many encounters where I have been unimpressed and have sought a second opinion. It's easier because I have money.

I don't care about skin colour. I do care about manners, competence and the ability to listen and communicate. It is a concern that if people complain about the foregoing they may be accused of racism if the HCP has non white skin. Or they might not complain for fear of being branded a racist and a poor HCP will go unchallenged.

” our local trust goes on recruitment drives in India for nursing staff. I have moral issues with nicking the expertise of a developing nation but without this recruitment our wards wouldn’t run.”

That isn’t true there are hoards of UK nurses and doctors struggling to get jobs.

This is already managed well tbh.

The NHS has NO duty or responsibility to offer a bespoke choice of clinician, for example somebody of a certain ethnicity, gender and so forth.

Patients have a right to DECLINE treatment, for any reasons.

Patients can decline, they do not need to evidence their reason for this.

The NHS has already met its responsibility to the patient by offering treatment from a suitability qualified professional.

It couldn't be clearer.

Well they shouldn't be allowed to choose the skin colour of their medical professional so it should be taken of refusal of medical help.

If someone says 'I only want a white person' they should just say well there is none so you have to leave. And if you don't we'll have to call security.

Absolute racist scum. Honestly let them suffer.

can you provide evidence of this? It’s an interesting angle and not one that applies locally - I have a friend who is a very senior nurse/nursing manager and they have to go to India as there aren’t enough British applicants for healthcare and nursing roles.

Nobody should have to suffer abuse at work. Some of the people who had suffered racist abuse in the article the OP posted are from my local hospital. I've been at that hospital far too much over the last few years and it may not be perfect but the staff do their absolute best. It makes me quite angry to think that people have to risk this kind of abuse every day when they are just trying to help people.
Yes, NHS staff who are treating patients should be able to communicate. But that isn't what we're talking about here. If someone is treating you and you can't understand them, it is ok to ask if someone else can explain things to you. What's not ok is to refuse to be treated by someone just because of the colour of their skin.
I can't imagine being so bigoted that I'd rather lie in agony without treatment than let someone help me. If they do that they are refusing to accept treatment not being denied treatment. They don't get to pick and choose.
The NHS should have a zero tolerance to this kind of abuse and any other form of abuse towards its staff.

Im not sure how this would work on practice. What if you didn't agree with a particular doctor's medical opinion or you found them rude or incompetent. How would anhone know whether thst was a racially motivated decision?

What? What about my British born non-white kids @Ponoka7 We do exist, you know.

That said, I am not sure we can do much about these twats.

Being to hospitals a lot over the years and on geriatric wards visiting elderly relatives I can partially understood not based on race but the ability to be able to understand the person doing the treatment/ care.
Accents/ poor English/ masks and hard of hearing patients I can see how it doesn’t make for reassuring care.

add in under staffing/ stressed staff/ overworked and half the ward being patients with Alzheimer’s/ dementia and I can see why staff have little care in them as well.

It's 🤯 that people can't just condemn racist behaviour, that people are 'suspecting there is more to it' or coming up with reasons why NHS workers have been called a 'monkey' or a 'dirty foreigner' is crazy work.

I don't care if someone doesn't have a word of English, comes from whatever culture, are rude, whatever, there is never an excuse to call people those names. Only racists would do that.