AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

This thread has moved very far away from the original post.
If we get on to the NHS not knowing what women are, that deserves another thread.
It's always a good idea to not worry about being accused of racism before actually being accused though.

Yes, I would be concerned about being asked to make a decision whether to treat a less clear cut case as a racist incident, especially if, as the OP stated (not the report) that the outcome of making that decision is that this patient is then declared to be declining assessment and/or treatment. Entirely different if it is patently obvious this is racist incident and would have no issue reporting or dealing with that. Equally, if it recording something as a racist/potentially racist to provide information but not turning a patient away/saying they declined treatment based on a judgement call, I’m all for that.

My concern- or timidity, if you prefer to view it like that- comes from my experience of how the NHS deals with problems arising from interpretation of their procedures or processes when things go wrong and shit hits the fan. They will always say the individual got it wrong, not that the process was.

There is no way I am going to believe that any HCP would not be hung out to dry if, for example, they misinterpreted something a patient said as racism which lead them to take a stance that resulted in the patient not receiving treatment they needed and that patient came to harm as a direct result of that. I am almost certain that the way that would be handled, especially if it got into the media and gained traction- senior management would not want to deal with the fall out and negative press and so would make it out to be an individual error. That is potentially career ending. So yes, I’m afraid I’m only prepared to refuse a patient an alternative HCP or turn them away (even if I record that as “refused care”) if I am sure it was a racist incident and I am sure that I could evidence it as such if a complaint is made/there is an adverse outcome. If that is timid, then yes I am timid.

A recent BMA report stated that there were a significantly larger number of complaints against t BAME clinicians than white. Clinicians with non UK qualifications have more checks than UK qualified clinicians ( and of course enty of UK qualified clinicians are BAME).

Yes, agree, that's the reality. Patients know they don't get a choice who they get to see. They get what they're given. End of.

I believe for the most part, patients just put up and shut up. If they receive poor care whether from black or white HCPs they will most likely just suck it up. It takes a lot for a patient to say 'no I'd like to see someone else'. That's my experience anyway.

And that’s precisely why the SoR are asking for guidance to be developed and published I would imagine, so that clinicians do know how to raise concerns and are protected by having followed agreed procedures. I doubt it would ever be turning someone away, unless they were abusive or violent (in which case I assume you would also turn them away, bar an emergency?)

Ditto! And just what I was about to comment.

I choose not to see a certain Dr at my GP practice. She’s from overseas and I just can’t understand her, so if someone else is available, I’ll choose them. I’d be happy for her to examine me or smear test but anything else that involves discussion, I really struggle. I would also refuse a smear test if it was a male doing it!

What a terrible mess.

I agree it should not be facilitated . If someone is providing poor care or there are concerns with their practice that’s fine but solely on the basis of where they are from ? Absolutely no way .

Hi have found asking ethnic minority staff in general to repeat themselves draws a facial expression which pretty much indicates they feel you are racist in asking for a statement to be repeated. Unwound expect this with HCPs as well.

We I have seen the exaggerated with from ethnic minority staff often with an eye roll toward colleagues if someone asks them to speak slowly and clearly etc.....

That’s a refusal based on poor care not ethnicity. That’s fine. You could make a complaint if you have the oomph.

That’s not racist. You hopefully took his name and you have a very clear rationale.

Hope you make a full and speedy recovery.

Unfortunately I didn't take his name. It was 5am, I'd been at A&E since 10pm. My clothes were covered in bodily fluids and blood and I was exhausted. It wasn't until I was on my way home that I realised he hadn't cleaned or disinfected the wound. I wish I had realised while he was examining me. Such different treatment from the wonderful breast nurses who patch me up every 3 days.

What about the ethnic minority staff who are British? Do they also roll their eyes?
🙄

Some of you need to get over your all consuming imaginary fear of being called racist- which is apparently more important than actual fucking racism- and just ask for different HCPs. Course you may not get them because the NHS is not obliged to pander to your paranoia.

A doctor wouldn’t clean a wound, a nurse would do that.

So are you saying it was no one's responsibility to clean the wound before putting on another dressing? He shouldn't have asked someone to do it?

The delay to my radiotherapy may affect the outcome of the cancer.

Tbh i don’t think anyone would think you’re racist if you’re mentioning 1- the issue and 2- the name of the doctor rather than zone of the Indian doctors’ iyswim.

We need to be careful to assume you’re going to be labelled racist no matter what.

1. We are short of nurses which is why we recruit from other countries.

2. Many many British trained, British born staff are not white. Are they acceptable?

3. Is it just African staff you object to? Or do you include all the many other nationalities and ethnicities within British healthcare?

4. Are non Brits who are white acceptable?

The conflation of ' ethnic minority" or ' non-white" with "not British' on this thread is quite revealing.

So glad I didn't become a doctor like my parents. Not that I was clever or hard working enough. But still.

You don’t need his name to make a complaint - there will a record of who saw you and the complaints reviewer would be able to see that when they investigate.

Can you rewrite that more clearly?

They really tell on themselves. I noticed how discussion of abuse faced by HCP (and especially non-white ones) assumes they are foreign. As if one cannot be non-white and British.

Ah I see there is stuff in the media about foreign doctors faking qualifications and being done for misconduct. So there is fear that the treatment will be inferior, innacurate, or dangerous from lesser qualifications, medics of à lower standard, or fake medics. This has happened and apparently there is some scare about à black guy lying about being a savant and being accepted as an academic at à top uni, and it was all lies.

You should definitely refuse a non-white doctor the next time you need one. And say exactly why.

The " black guy" you refer to- Jason Arday- is British. Just say you only want a white doctor as only they are reliable.

I was born before 1960 and would be very upset to be "deemed racist by today's standards" . I was active in the Anti-Aparthied movement and the Anti-Nazi League which strongly and successfully opposed the growth of the National Front. None of my friends and family in this age group are in any way racist, i would not spend time with them if they were. I am deeply dismayed by the rise of parties such as Reform and Restore, Sometimes it feels as if we have gone back to the days of my youth and not in a good way especially as some of these people are in parliament which was something the National Front never achieved. The people out rioting in 2024 all looked much younger than me as did those men burning black and brown people's houses in Belfast.

Exactly. If you misunderstanding please ask for a clearer answer. Perfectly polite.

One problem with immigrant doctors is that offense is taken at requests for repeating information. There is an assumption someone is racist when asking someone to speak clearly and slowly in English. The standard of English of some HCPs is not great and we have to address the underlying issues for this (low standard of exams) rather than instantly thinking someone is a veiled racist when asking fit clarification.

It is not the patient's problem that an HCP has poor grasp of the Ebglush language.