AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Woops English above.....

Has an immigrant doctor told you they think.you are racist? Or is that an assumption.
People are always asking me to repeat my foreign name. I don't think they are racist.

That sounds entirely reasonable.

Of course there is some assumption here but personally I do not like to ask people to repeat themselves if their English is unclear for fear of being labelled racist.

I know of some HCPs who do though take offence at being asked to repeat the same statement.

I don't think the SOR or any other body can legislate for assumptions.

How do you know this assumption is being made? Isn’t that an assumption on your part?

Also why are you conflating nationality and race?

A number of people have quite rightly said requesting female staff for intimate examination when you are female is quite normal agreed.

Can you expand the argument to say that as say a Muslim immigrant woman may feel more comfortable giving birth if the midwifery staff are Muslim as the mother would feel more comfortable with staff with the same culture and perhaps aware of the single cultural requirements around birth for that religion/culture? One of the recent failings in maternity care highlighted was that of racism so would it be understandable if a black woman asked for black midwives given that it is now openly stated and evidenced that racism is a cause of poor birth outocome?

the overall point is that is asking for health care staff with similar culture and background to yourself acceptable if it makes you more comfortable for a variety of maybe understandable reason? The answer ultimately may be no but there is some nuance to the question.

Maybe this a little off tangent but is there an argument given that we are a majority white population we need to recruit more white consultant staff as they are a minority?

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/workforce/uk-has-more-ethnic-minority-than-white-doctors-for-first-time-says-gmc/

The reasons for this ethnic make ionic our consultant work force is complex but I think the reason is the work ethic of ethnic minority families and the priority they put in children's education and professional aspiration which white people don't have to the same extent.

Consultant salaries are within the top 5% if not 2% in the country so this is not the case of ethnic minorities doing jobs white people are unwilling to do but a case of ethnic minorities having on average better academic qualifications and focused career decisions. (Also we have immigrant consultants as well).

Would it be racist to say we need to encourage more white people to undergo medical training to address the imbalance so maybe have a consultant workforce more reflective of the patient base?

Interesting article. It’s about all doctors, not just consultants, and it seems to be saying that ethnic minority doctors are a slight majority since 2023. At that time white doctors were 47% of the total, ethnic minority doctors were 47.6%.

Why do you think we ‘need’ more white doctors? Why do you think more white people are not applying for medical school?

We need more white medics and many are not getting employment due to DEI rulings!

Rubbish. I used to work in a medical school and it is just a fact that many families from ethnic minorities want their children to go into established professions like medicine and dentistry and are very effective at helping and directing them to achieve that goal. I think the place I worked had over 50% of its students from various ethnicities other than White British. They were excellent students, British nationals, born and educated here, and making a great contribution to UK society once qualified, if they stay here. Increasing numbers of new doctors and dentists go abroad because the NHS is not finding all of them suitable jobs. That has nothing whatever to do with DEI rulings.

I think it is well established that the arts, humanities and languages are dominated by middle-class white students because only that demographic has the confidence to go for non-vocational subjects and expect that they will still end up with decent jobs afterwards, or accept that they won't earn very much but not worry about it because there is family money to fall back on. Working class and ethnic minority students are far more likely to go for STEM subjects, health care, economics, law, business studies and accountancy, and so on.

💯 I'm from a poor background and noone would have entertained the idea of me going to university to do art history or whatever. It was hard enough to explain how I'd afford it and manage doing a professional subject

70% of my Asian family-scattered across the world- are doctors/ dentists. The other 30% are engineers ( as am I and DH). We didn't have the family money to be studying courses that led to unemployment. And we don't want to rely on the state.

Good to know some consider us DEI hires. ( not helped by Jason Arday).I am confident these are in the minority, though.

One of my DC has done a similar subject. Because I now have ( some) money. She regrets it now and wishes she had gone in for engineering or finance.

Respectfully, both my children studied humanities courses: Classics and English. Neither are unemployed. Both en-route to earning as much as doctors.

That's fabulous, really.
And let me add that I do believe children should study whatever they like and are interested in. That is the whole point of being a second gen immigrant.

But my DD is definitely having a hard time finding well paying employment. She studied history. Things are different now, I think.
Sorry to go off on a tangent.

That is the whole point of education, regardless of being a second gen immigrant.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Depends on circumstances.

Nobody will be truly successful doing something for which they have no passion.

Could you put some links up that demonstrate this, thank you

I would be dead if I had done that! Emergency hysterectomy in 2016 for haemorrhaging secondary to warfarin therapy. Phosphate level 0.29 and potassium of 3.1. Calcium level 1.57. Two surgeries for thyroid and parathyroid glands removal. Oh and a couple of DVTs in between! I’m on about my 5th life if we’re talking cat lives! ED in Dublin and surgeries in Dublin and England. None of the surgeons were white Irish or English and very few of the other hospital staff were either.