AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

I suggest you pay for Bupa and set your requirements out clearly on your application form.

Perceived cultural differences.

Did you read the article?

It's important for patients to be able to ask for treatment from someone of their own sex for reasons of safety, privacy and dignity. It's not always women wanting a female doctor or nurse or radiographer. Some men would prefer an intimate examnation to be carried out by another man. It's usually women, though, and there are good reasons for this to do with past sexual abuse, religious beliefs or just general caution because men are far more likely to be sexual predators than women.

This is a completely different issue from refusing treatment from someone because of the colour of their skin or the religion they follow, which is done from fear, hatred and ignorance.

I can't really belive this is a big problem? How exactly can anyone get treated in hospital if you refuse to be seen by anyone non white British? I'd say that's impossible.

At the gp it's more possible as you can express to see a certain gp ( I do as I want to see a woman sometimes as simply she does gyne stuff as the resident expert). Also mine is a teaching practice but I don't recall them ever a non white GP ever.

It’s really not. It’s really prevalent and it’s horrific.

Wanting to see a female GP is much different to refusing to see a healthcare worker because they’re not white.

Which is why I said to a lesser degree, sex" There'll always be exceptions to the rule, where people have a real reason..

My psychiatrist wrote to my GP saying I should only see female GPs - due to the trauma of domestic abuse. With GPs at least this is considered a very normal and reasonable request. I’m not comfortable seeing male hospital healthcare professionals but I do see them on the odd occasion I have a hospital appointment without fuss. I would never ever reject someone based on skin colour.

So when someone refuses to let a black radiographer carry out an x-ray because "black people frighten him" - one of the examples in the article- that isn't about skin colour but about "perceived cultural differences"?

What perceived cultural differences do you think might make someone scared of letting a black person carry out an x-ray?

And at what point do we admit that random assumptions about perceived cultural differences based on the colour of people's skin are actually just about the colour of people's skin?

I don’t care if staff are white or non white however I want gold standard UK trained NHS staff with the best standard of spoken, written and understanding of English.
I don’t want staff from certain countries that are known to be corrupt(including in obtaining visas, qualifications and sitting English competency exams) and have awful views as regards ND and LGBT people to be treating the vulnerable, LGBT and the ND particularly in MH.

Totally understand wanting a gold standard service. Don’t we all, in everything?

But how would you know they’re from such a country, or indeed what that person’s views are?

Would you go into hospital with a checklist, and vet staff before you allow them to treat you?
Because that is such a sweeping generalisation

Extreme example I know, but by your standards Harold Shipman and Lucy Letby would’ve been acceptable to you and look what they did!

My parents, both in their nineties, discriminate on understandability, not race.

⬆️first two paragraphs are meant to be a quote

The vulnerable are not able to go private and are entitled to NHS care however abuse is disproportionately high as regards MH and vulnerable care and it’s in all our interests that patients have gold standard care. How would you like your elderly parent or vulnerable ND or mentally ill child to be treated by somebody with limited English who doesn’t understand nuances, makes mistakes and comes from a country where corruption as regards qualifications is on an industrial scale and which has a widespread cultural belief that people with autism are possessed and the LGBT community should be stoned.

We need to be making sure that UK trained medical student doctors nurses and other professionals are made the absolute priority as regards the giving out of jobs otherwise why are we spending taxpayers money on training them?

Great point but it will be totally lost on those with prejudices.

No so procedures need to be put in place that prioritises UK trained staff every single time and certain countries are taken off the list as regards NHS staff. Then patients will be better protected and have their taxes used properly.

So many UK trained medical, professional and nursing students are struggling to find work. It’s madness.

I recently had a young black radiographer carry out an internal scan. I did joke with him that it was considerate to have allocated me a good looking man! He was fantastic and I couldn't begin to imagine his walking into the room and rejecting his service because he was black. Awful regressive stuff.

In the article, I noticed reference to communication, from Nigerian medics, for example. That's the only situation which I could try to understand if I was struggling to hear what was being said. However, I would handle potential scenarios, like that with tact. Anything else is racist. consequences, of which should include withdrawal of services. YANBU.

I’m an ethnic minority and I find this deeply disgusting, however we still treat people even if we don’t like their opinions. I don’t think it’s right to withhold treatment from someone even if find their views abhorrent. I’m sure there are loads of times when someone doesn’t want to be treated by a particular person for a variety of reasons from valid to ridiculous. I would also suggest that if someone’s made a massive fuss because their HCP is asian or black of whatever it may not be in the interests of that HCP to have to treat that person.

We have a universal healthcare system, admittance to it isn’t based on approved opinions. It is what it is.

For many years I trained young NHS dentists . All,of whom had excellent communication skills , most were British but all spoke excellent English.

There was and still is, a significant number of people who demand to see a different dentist based on colour of skin.

However it also has to be said there is , in general, a significant deterioration in the behaviour of patients of all ages and demographics and losing their temper and personal verbal and physical attacks against staff when people don’t get their own way is increasing. Verbal abuse based on your race;sex, appearence is not unusual, particularly against support staff like receptionists.

In an era where dentists in the U.K. are more likely to be sued than anywhere else in the world the pressure someone feels if they have to treat a patient who dislikes them because of the colour of their skin is enormous., they know a complaint , with all the stress that follows, is inevitable. However patients like this are well versed in their “rights” and often colleagues are not supported well enough (particularly in the NHS) to be able to operate in a safe working environment .

Jesus, send them to the bottom of the waiting list or kick them off it. That’s awful.

A genuine question tho… what do you suggest we do with the international nurses the nhs recruited after covid when staff left in droves? The ones that have practiced beautifully, integrated their children into society, paid huge amounts of taxes and sums for PR? Should they be punished?

The vacancies are there, but the funding for the posts is not. Multiple wards and services have been closed and staff reconfigured. That is the reason we cannot employ these Drs and nurses. It’s a sorry state of affairs but we cannot blame our international colleagues who took the risk to come over and set up a new life.

Yes, that is a good point about communication.

I couldn’t care less where someone treating me is from, or the colour of their skin, but I do want to be able to understand them. And - despite working with colleagues from many different countries, and being generally good with most accents - I have had some interactions with NHS staff when I simply haven’t been able to.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not suggesting that we should withdraw treatment for people who have abhorrent views. I agree with the principle of universal health care.

I'm simply saying that if someone refuses treatment from a health care professional because of the colour of their skin, then their refusal should be accepted and the NHS should not offer up a white health care professional to provide that treatment instead.

As things stand, I understand that the NHS does have the option to decline non-urgent treatment in this situation. My view is that this should be the default.

It seems to be such a simple thing but it is far from simple if you work in health or the care sector.

Examples I have come across, an elderly patient with dementia who had been a POW in a Japanese camp who got incredibly upset when an Asian nurse tried to treat him. He thought he was back in the camp.

Someone who was gang raped did not want staff of the same ethnicity as her rapists to treat her.

Were these people racist? Yes, but they had good reason to be. When people are ill they are vulnerable and things that wouldn't usually bother them become issues.

Refusing an intimate exam is not the same as refusing to be served in a café or complaining about your post man/woman.

no, because they're refusing treatment. you can be racist but keep your opinions to yourself you mean WHITE British then? Cos my friend just qualified as a nurse, she's British, not white. How is ok for someone to refuse to be treated by her? My other friend is a dietician in a hospital. Also not white. also British. one of our favourite nurses for my son, not white, yes British.

you're willing to sacrifice their right to be treated like a human so someone with a different skin colour can get a job instead?

I agree re communication, the only time patients complained ime was if they couldn't understand what was being said.
Tbf I struggle to understand my dn Scottish accent sometimes.