AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

You'd be screwed if having chemotherapy in our hospital then. I'd hazard a guess that around 80% of our nurses are non white. I did encounter one patient about to start with his Britain first nonsense but a few of us pulled him up on it loudly in front of the whole room.

My oncology consultant is also non white but I wouldn't swap him for the world.

I know in a hospital that people can feel vulnerable and more likely to lash out as a result. However racism is absolutely not OK and I have no qualms at pulling anyone up on it in that environment.

Go and read the article again.

Which is why I said to a lesser degree. It's understandable with women's health like mammograms, smears etc but eg standard radiography, scans, the "ologies" should be all about who's available.

We know it's recruitment policies. Or our junior doctors and Unions etc are lying. People qualify and there isn't jobs for them. Meanwhile we've recruited from less developed countries.

It says a lot about that poster's thought process, though from other post that I have seen, I cannot say that I am surprised.

No.

the nhs understands that ill people can be irrational and have emotional reactions.

in many situations people are able to request a doctor of the same sex - prostate exams, etc for men, gynae issues and similar for women.

there are many women who have suffered domestic violence and if you request a woman the nhs will generally do it’s best to honour that request.
it’s no benefit to anyone if patients are having panic attacks or dissociative episodes because of the doctor who treats them.

in mh units this is well known and staff will be assigned appropriately.

Recruitment policies? Such as?
My OH is an NHS medic and has observed
’British trained medical staff’ as you put it, set restrictions on themselves about where they want to work (geographically) and the area they want to work in (clinically).

Do you think only white British people study nursing etc?

Exactly - recruitment policy . It’s because overseas doctors of 5-10 years experience are applying for the same jobs as foundation trainees with 2 years experience .
The bigger problem with doctor job shortages is the hiring of other health care practitioners to do the job of a doctor - cheaper and often the employer can claim a grant.

🥱. When I started several decades ago, many people, both male and female, refused treatment from a ‘new fangled’ female Dr, asking for a man instead as ‘they are better’ and ‘women are nurses’. While ridiculous, and the majority of people have absolutely moved past this, that was their right. It’s a patients right to consent who does and doesn’t treat them.

I was thinking about women requesting other women. However, I do think that is different in some ways.

I think that they should suffer the natural consequences of their racism, as in maybe 3x the wait in A&E to see a white doctor.

But regardless of people’s actions/prejudices we don’t let them die. And, practically, if they refuse and then agree 6 months later when their condition is far more intractable, that will actually cost the NHS money.

Nothing to stop people from requesting a second opinion. They just don't get to pick the skin colour of those who provide the first opinion, or indeed the second one.

And I'm not suggesting that people should be refused all treatment on the NHS, but merely the treatment that they refuse because of the skin colour of the health care worker in question. So, if they refuse an x-ray carried out by a black radiographer, then they don't get the x-ray but it wouldn't mean that they lose the right to other NHS treatment unless they choose to decline that as well.

There would need to be some sort of system of informed consent, whereby it was ascertained that people understood the consequences of their choices before making them. But if they resolutely refuse treatment from a non-white health care professional, then I don't think that any treatment should be forced upon them but I also don't think that the NHS should provide a white substitute to carry out the procedure instead.

So it’s all about ‘rights’ and nothing about being a responsible and reasonable human being. Fantastic!

I have a relative, Indian background who was a paediatrician and there were parents who wanted to refuse treatment for their children. The policy was that if treatment was not urgent or life threatening then no other medical professional would treat their children child. If it was they would be treated by a different doctor, assuming of course there was one available.

A parent’s view should threaten a child. There might be a discussion after about wats forward. there were issues where the parents disagreed.
The otger important thing about all of it was that no child, including the actual patient(or other parent) had to hear the discussion.

I’m not sure what the policy for adults was, wonder if it was the same where a relative was objecting and the patient could not give their view.

ETA not sure what policy is now, but that seemed a good compromise but the parent would have the same issue in any hospital across the region.

I agree that it's the patient's right to consent to who does and doesn't treat them. I just don't think it's a patient's right to be able to demand a nurse or doctor with a particular skin colour.

I don't think it's ever really about the skin colour.

I couldn't care less about the skin colour of my doctor, nurse etc. I do want to be able to communicate with them though. I recently had to stay in hospital in London for a few nights. Nearly all of the nurses had very poor English. It was a nightmare trying to get my views across and if they didn't understand me they just stared blankly or walked away.

The NHS cannot even keep track of DNR (do not resuscitate) forms even in the same hospital. When my dad was dying of cancer multiple doctors had conversations with the next of kin (my mum) and all but one were embarrassed to find there was already one in place.

i think the chance of the nhs keeping track of a do not treat due to racism is absolutely nil.

You didn't read the article

This isn't about foreign recruitment

This is about skin colour

I don’t care if staff are white or non white however I want gold standard UK trained NHS staff with the best standard of spoken, written and understanding of English.

I don’t want staff from certain countries that are known to be corrupt(including in obtaining visas, qualifications and sitting English competency exams) and have awful views as regards ND and LGBT people to be treating the vulnerable, LGBT and the ND particularly in MH.

What do you think it is about then?

Agreed.

Really? What do you think it's about then? Their earrings? Eye colour? The cut of their jib? What?

If that's what you believe go private no one is stopping you. They might tolerate your attitude there.

People from one country and not all the same just as people from the UK are not all the same

I work for the NHS and deal with this type of things. No matter what a patient wants, they may say they don't want a person of this race or this religion treat them, but those preferences are never accommodated and it is made clear to them that that's not possible.