AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Then the government needs to start with actually employing people.
There are MANY jobs left vacant because the government is refusing to employ doctors.
Instead we, the public are left to struggle. Or they are employing Associate practitioners instead (like you’ll see an AP instead of a GP).

The issue is not ‘too many non British HCP’, esp as we are ASKING them to come over anyway as otherwise the nhs woukd be collapsing.

What about someone, say, with schizophrenia, who has a delusion that M15 are working in conjunction with an African republic to assassinate them? And therefore refuses to cooperate with Afro-Caribbean staff? Would you allow them to have treatment arranged that they could accept, perhaps even then with difficulty, from staff who aren't Afro-Caribbean?

Or would you just say that they had refused treatment?

I am very happy to be treated by anyone of any skin colour, and am very grateful for all the NHS workers who work so hard, wherever they are from. But as a neurodiverse person with audio-processing difficulties, social anxiety and hearing problems I find medical treatment extremely stressful when the person explaining my treatment to me has a very strong foreign accent and I don't think the NHS recruitment processes have high enough standards in this regard, especially as some commonwealth countries which have retained English as an "official" language have developed their own local dialects such that people from there often claim to have English "as a first language" while being really difficult to understand. From fear of being thought racist if I try to explain my difficulty, I have never said anything about how stressed and miserable this makes me, but I have resorted to asking for all important information to be written down because I can't rely on having understood what I am told due to this language barrier. But this issue isn't a big deal for the majority of NHS staff - nurses, porters, healthcare assistants etc are unlikely to be explaining complex things to me.

Noone is removing medical treatment. Some of these people are refusing treatment from non white professionals. They are making the decision not to be treated.

What about black or Asian staff showing different attitudes towards white patients, which I have heard of, or black or Asian patients refusing treatment from a white doctor or nurse?

Just as devil's advocate, if someone had suffered past sexual abuse at the hands of a person or people of a particular religion and/or originally from a part of the world that is statistically far more likely to carry out that abuse (making a parallel with your justification for refusing treatment from one sex) wouldn't they be justified on exactly the same grounds as the person you say is justified in preferring an intimate examination to be carried out by someone of the same sex?

As an example, if a victim of a grooming gang said they didn't mind any examination being carried out by a woman, or a white or black man but not a South Asian man, would that be OK on the same basis? Is it only acceptable if they say a blanket no men at all despite the fact they're actually fine with some men and might be treated quicker if a white or black doctor is available? If so, can you explain the difference in principle?

I think you would need to be able to perform some kind of capacity assessment to ensure that the patient understood the consequences of their choices.

Oh, that's coming back. My mum got abuse of the " go home" variety the other day for wearing a bindi and a sari on her way to the temple. She's former NHS.

If you didn't call these medical professionals dirty foreigners and monkeys or say that you were afraid of black people then this article isn't revelant to you. Not a single person is saying that you shouldn't be able to choose practitioners based on how you have been treated, they are saying that you shouldn't be able to choose practitioners based on the colour or their skin.

Because U.K. trained staff are always inclusive and have no biases?

And?

The OP’s point was I think that the NHS has a history of recruiting qualified, medical staff from poorer countries where the salaries are a lot lower.

Meanwhile a lot of U.K. trained staff head for e.g. Australia, where the pay is rather better.

Absolutely should be. As a bare minimum it should be a separate list for all those that can only be touched by a certain race, which will have much longer waiting times than the rest of us that aren’t bigots.
wonder if we could do it with blood too?

I am shocked and enraged by this and even more by some of the responses here. If someone is rude, snappy, dismissive or ignorant that is who they are. The colour of their skin has nothing to do with their behaviour. To label their behaviour by their skin color is racist.

If someone refuses treatment for whatever reason let them go. Zero tolerance.
Let those who refuse treatment, go and pay privately. Thing is, some of the medical staff are bound to be people of colour.
What a bloody world this is turning into.
18% (of 246) on this poll think this is unreasonable. Jesus wept. Tommy Robinson and Farage would be proud.

I suspect simply because if you dint agree with tge decision, you’ll have proper reasons you can explain.
If it’s based on racism, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to explain more than by either being openly racist or with answers like ‘I don’t trust them’

Racist or xenophobic people usually have no issue saying racist things tbh. It’s not like you have to do a whole investigation about it

Somebody who has grown up in the UK and/or had UK medical training will most definitely not have cultural bias in the same way no.

Black history is steeped in very good reasons for them to distrust white doctors. Current statistics are very clear on how poorly the system treats black patients.

I’m sure they’ll be encouraged to take pain relief but if there is only 1 staff member available and they’re refusing it then I guess there is nothing left but to due in agony.

I highly doubt anyone actually needing treatment would care about who’s treating them.
And if they’re in enough pain their racist and bigoted ways go out the window.

While I get where you are coming from I think it brings complications and that no one should be refused treatment.

My late mum was allocated a black GP who had a soft voice and a very thick accent. He was lovely but she was very deaf and even with hearing aids she could not understand him so I asked if she could be switched to the care of the GP she usually saw instead. We were initially told he would stay named as her GP but she could see who she wanted. I am not even sure now that we have an allocated GP. The result go back to the person who made the referral but that didn't used to be the case and after a few times of one GP getting the referral and her GP getting the results, it was changed. On the face of it this could appear racist but I can promise you it was about understanding and being able to take part in the conversation rather than me having to be there and translate, and her embarrassment about not being able to understand him. It was not about the colour of his skin. He was mine and my son's GP too. Over the years mum was treated and cared for by a number of NHS and care workers with different skin colour or nationality, but the only time she struggled was with accents and that would be the case if it were someone with a strong accent who was white and from a different part of England!

Also I think that if someone is openly racist, then NHS staff should be able to choose to reallocate the patient to a colleague, who would not face the same prejudice and/or abuse - so long as there is someone available. I am not saying all staff would want to do this but some might. I remember watching an episode of greys anatomy where a patient had a swastika tattoo and did not want to be treated by a particular doctor although it was more about his own embarrassment than him not trusting them or wanting them to treat him.

Finally, I think everyone should be able to ask to change Dr/Nurse if they are not comfortable with the person providing their care without going into detail as to the reasons. That leaves you in the territory of guessing their motives. When a man refuses treatment by a woman or vice versa, it may be because they are the opposite sex (and if so is it sexism or because he just feels more comfortable with a man), it may be because of colour or nationality, or perhaps they don't like or agree with their suggestions for treatment or just the way they are being spoken to. I don't think many racist people would refuse to be treated. In a hospital setting, most people are grateful for the help even if this makes them a hypocrite.

It has no need to collapse! We have UK trained staff paid for by the UK tax payer unable to get work. The Tories caused this mess and the present government needs to sort it out- pronto!

Hard disagree wrt sex.

The pp's "point" was irrelevant to the thread, which is about racism towards NHS workers.

Many British health care professionals are from non white backgrounds and experience racism from patients, so I am not sure why anyone would want to detract from this by changing the subject to talk about NHS recruitment policies instead.

Just to add, if someone asks for a different doctor and there is no one else available, then they either accept or refuse treatment. The NHS cannot be expected to magic up staff members of the patient's preferred demographic.

When my DS was in hospital, he was treated by one clinician who I'm sure was v capable, but his English was poor. I really struggled to understand his advice about how to care for DS after discharge

A patient asked me who he was seeing. Gave him the doctor's name. He sneered and said 'so a foreigner'. I told him he could sit down and be seen, or turn around and walk out. He shut up then.

Zero tolerance. Not having my colleagues insulted.