AIBU to expect my husband to learn basic household habits?

[edvardsghost]

Why are some men seemingly incapable of learning basic household habits?

Before you start saying "weaponised incompetence", I'm honestly not sure that's what this is... but I'm running out of other explanations. Am I being unreasonable/having unrealistic expectations?

My DH is a lovely man. Intelligent, successful at work, learns new systems and processes all the time, manages people, solves problems... yet somehow cannot consistently manage things like:

• putting used tissues straight in the bin instead of leaving them by the sink
• putting socks in the washing basket rather than wherever they happen to come off
• putting things back in the cupboard after using them
• putting his shoes in the shoe rack
• the list goes on….

I know some of it is probably down to his upbringing. His mum worked all the time and his dad was very hands-off, so he never really learned the basics of running a home. But like… at what point does that stop being an excuse?

I've asked nicely, explained why it bothers me, reminded him over and over again, lost my temper, left things where they are.……. nothing sticks!!!! can't imagine him repeatedly ignoring basic instructions from his boss or colleagues like this

Do some men just not see this stuff? Is it because they know someone else (me) will eventually sort it out?

Has anyone actually found a way to change this awful dynamic? Should I just accept that I’ll be reminding a grown man where the washing basket is for the rest of our lives? I’m exhausted!!!!

They consider this stuff beneath them and are confident some woman will clear up after them. It’s infuriating.

Are you seriously advocating that a grown man has a reward chart? What's the reward if he's a good boy and earns all his stars? A blow job?

I am no fan of men but are you really saying that all men are the same? I can think of 3 women off the top of my head who are/were the messy ones in their relationship and the husband did all the picking up afterwards. It's not about brains being wired up differently and I hope to god you're not teaching your children this nonsense.

Totally agree with you.
Fecking infuriating that wives are expected to teach their husbands the correct way to be that their parents should have taught them by modelling good behaviour.
These tick lists and charts get on my wick.

Also hints of treating grown men like children which is insulting to them.

I cannot stand menchildren.
I like men to be fully formed adults.

Some things like leaving the mug by the kettle or leaving a solitary glass by the sink are debatable because I can see the logic in it, dirty socks and sweet wrappers on the floor are NOT.

The irony is the women who have expectations from the outset that their husband is their equal, and not their superior, end up having the best, longest marriages.

the women who have a lower bar for men, who take on more drudge work under the guise of either being a cool wife and letting things go, or that men are wired differently, end up disrespected and divorced.

i was the latter, and my raising of my daughters is to teach them that their expectations of men should be equal to that of women, and that if they can’t find one, then they stay single.

I can understand the splitting of certain tasks like the laundry, however, the person who does not do the laundry should ensure that they take clothes to dirty laundry basket, put them in appropriate space for whites, darks, coloured, make sure pockets are emptied and so on and not a pile of washing on the floor.

It's like saying 'I understand that you do this task but I'm not going to make it harder for you'. Just basic respect.

Ah, the joy of a silly comment being taken seriously on the internet!

I don't think it's quite as simple as that in most cases. Yes, if you are a perfect person and don't make any mess or have any annoying habits yourself, then maybe you can expect your partner to do the same. But most women who are saying they'd let this slide, do so knowing that their partner is equally letting things slide for them. It's not always about disrespect.

I pick up my husbands stray socks without complaint, and he collects up the random mugs and glasses I leave all over the house. We do this because it's a small complaint in the grand scheme of all the other positive qualities we recognise in each other. We try to be mindful of our annoying habits if the other asks, but ultimately people are who they are. If you find that unacceptable, you shouldn't marry them hoping they'll change.

I’m asking why he can’t learn, when he is able to learn other things at work.

Because he has no incentive to learn at home.
You tell him it’s an issue for you and …. You still do the tidy up/washing anyway.
Youre telling us that it’s not divorce territory.

So why would he make the effort when that effort is more costly than listening to you ‘ranting’/complaining?

Now I know that atm it’s not divorce territory fir you.
But I can guarantee you’re going to,from resentful of it and THEN it will be divorce territory. Except there will be no soace, no time left to change, communicate etc… because trust will have been broken too many times.

The only thing that will work is natural consequences. Consequences that are harder than actually doing to tidying up,
Treat him like a teenager. He does his own laundry. You dint tidy up fur him. Socks left on the floor when you tidy the living room go in the bin (or a black bag somewhere).
Start with personal stuff that won’t impact you.
Then you can move your the kitchen etc… like you keep a cup for yourself. Leave him with the others until there are no clean cups left. What will he do?

Then you can move on to assigning tasks. You do the cooking. He cleans. The day after he cooks and you clean. If he hasnt cleaned tge day before, there are no pan. He’ll have to clean it up etc….

At some point, if he is intelligent enough, he’ll get the message. If he doesn’t despite intervention and having communicated how deeply unhappy you are about it, then I’d review tge whole marriage.
Because you’d well into ‘I dint care about and your wishes’ territory. Into disrespect.

What you’re describing here is a balanced relationship. Which is fair enough.
What the OP is describing isn’t

As for the ‘hecwill never change’, I disagree.
When I got married, I was messy. Very messy.
dh isn’t.
When we started to live together, I made an effort. I washed dishes on the day because otherwise it meant dh was always doing it. I put the clothes in the laundry basket rather than the floor because I inked dh didn’t like it. And he'd do it instead.
It’s totally possible. And I’m sure tge OP’s dh didn’t leave his socks all over her place when they started dating or living together… so I’m sure he can do it now. If he wanted to.

Mine grew up in neglect so there isnt a concept of putting things away, making sure things are clean. It wouldnt bother him to live in a manky house.

The majority of your comment is serious. How the fuck am I meant to differentiate when it's not at all obvious that the last comment is a gear shift and not actually meant? If you're going to joke, at least make it funny.

I've found that you need to really stress what the actual issue is. If you just tell him to tidy up, he'll think the problem is the mess, and we can all agree that that's not really a big deal! Make it clear that the problem is him not listening or being willing to learn - emphasise how this makes you feel like your time and efforts at home are not being respected. Hope that helps

You could be describing my DH. He NEVER puts anything away (so consequently half his life is spent looking for keys, wallet etc that have "just vanished into thin air" and gets very huffy when I point out they haven't; they are wherever he left them. He will make a sandwich and leave crumbs on the side, will spill a drink and unless he has happened to drop the whole thing, doesn't wipe up the liquid (and if he does spill the whole thing his wiping up is similar to that Heinz ad where the soup explodes in the microwave and the young lad gives it a half hearted wipe with a bit of kitchen roll and goes off leaving the mess), and so the list goes on, It drives me mad! I think in his younger, pre-married days his mother used to just clean up after him. I don't, but it doesn't make any difference. Honestly, we could live in a shithole, and he wouldn't notice - and even if he did he wouldn't care!

The thing is, quite a lot of people really, really don't like being told what to do. I'm afraid your husband may be of of them. If so, you are fucked. It cannot be unlearned. At work they are paid to do as they're told, and they have to, but at home? A man I was truly fond of used to leave the bathroom floor wet after a shower. I let this slide for a while (I was pre-menopausal!). One day I handed him a roll of kitchen paper, and said, 'Can you use this on the floor when you've finished, please? Don't put it down the toilet, put it in the kitchen bin.' He came out of the bathroom, he's nowhere near the bin so I asked him where the used paper was. He told me he'd torn it up into tiny pieces and put it down the toilet, so it 'probably' wouldn't block it. He used up more time and energy doing it his way than doing it mine!

So yes, such people leave their socks beside the laundry basket, their dishes by the sink. They are making A Point. You have my condolences.

NRFT but I have come to the conclusion that these men view their homes differently to how their wives/partners view their homes.

For the wife/partner, their home is a place where they work and relax. They accept that they need to do housework in order to have a home that is organised, runs well and they feel comfortable in. When the housework is done, or when they run out of energy, they relax. They accept that having a home they can relax in requires work.
Their husbands view the same home as a place where they can mentally switch off, they have been at work all day, switched on, having to focus, think about what needs doing, organise themselves, prioritise urgent tasks.
When they get home, they switch off mentally and see their home as a place to relax.
They are afforded this luxury of switching off because they live with someone who is always switched on, and does the work for them, or at the very least, does the thinking and organising for them.

Those same men would organise their homes and themselves much better if they had to permanently live alone, because then there would be consequences that would affect them directly, and no, explaining and complaining about their lack of input is not enough of a consequence.
In fact, explaining how you feel repeatedly can actually cause certain parts of the brain to experience a drop in energy and activity, like the prefrontal cortex which is responsible for processing complex decisions, logical reasoning and consequence planning, so instead of talking about their lack of effort, allow them to feel the results of doing nothing.
Action really does speak louder than words in this situation, or should I say inaction speaks louder than words.

YANBU. And the only reason I don’t have this issue is because this is my second marriage and I learned the hard way the first time round! First time I was the default house slave. I wasn’t doing that again and made that crystal clear to now DH.
For me this level of household incompetence would be a massive turnoff. And when he asked why I don’t want him near me, I’d explain it was because he was behaving like a child and I don’t find that attractive.

You seriously reckon the reason hes leaving everything at his backside is something other than weaponised incompetence?

Is he dropping snot rags by the sink? No. Does he leave his shoes as a floor obstacle at him mums? No

Hes being lazy. Id tell him once and after that od down tools on any chores for him - his laundry, his tea, id start conveniently forget

If you can bear to do it just ignore his stuff. Not in the washing basket, doesn't get washed, leave his pots and plates where he leaves them, gather up his tissues into a bag and give him them back. Just as men listen but don't hear, they also look but don't see.

How infuriating. Make him flowcharts to show the processes of routines? 🤷‍♀️

I told mine that it was very simple . Just put stuff back when you use it . Put it back . The tissue thing is so annoying . I put a weeks worth on his pillow one night .

Oh my god!!!! As a man I realise that with you all we can never win! Let me tell you about some of the things my ex wife used to do! How about taking out her soiled tampons and leaving it on the bath….the bin was next to the fucking bath and saying she didn’t have time to put it said bin!! How about having dogs and young children and not cleaning the dog shit up and there was once 22 dog poos for me to clean up when I got from work. She was at home at this point and I was told that I am not a house wife…..my words to her were….what are you then as you are at home with the kids and I’m at work. Before anyone starts stating I’m being sexist, we alternated the role of who worked and who looked after the kids….the house was tidy and not dog turds for my toddlers to fall in when I was not working. I am with a wonderful woman now who shares the responsibility of our home with me, she doesn’t like to cook so I do that but she always does her fair share and this is what a relationship is all about. So your husband doesn’t put his socks in the washing, big deal, stop finding faults in everything and just enjoy each other. It seems that allot of woman just come on mumsnet for attention, maybe if the men on here spoke up about all the crap their wives displayed, this was be more interesting conversation!!

I say - right shall we get on with some tidying? You do the kitchen, ill do the bathrooms.

After dinner- gosh this room is messy. Lets share out what needs doing. Or
Right, im going to tidy up the bedroom, what are you going to do? Ironing?:)

Its not my job. We all live in the house. We all have to keep it clean, although we all have a terrible habit of leaving books everywhere.

Oh, and if you cook, you tidy up after yourself.

So because your ex wife was manky all other women need to put up with manky men?

It seems that allot of woman just come on mumsnet for attention
Yet here you are doing the same thing as us.

That’s not what I’m saying, but m trying to say that this forum seems to be a man hating platform when woman are just as bad. I don’t come on here often as it’s so negative towards males but we are not all the same. I am a good partner to my wife, I treat her with respect and shower her with love and affection and it annoys me that women on here seem to pick on men for very little issue….like socks!!