To say 12 is still too young to be going into Leeds with friends in the holidays?

[Calmuntilfriday]

Please don't all shout at me because i genuinely don't know if im being too overprotective or not

Its only the second week of the summer holidays and i already feel like we're going to be counting the days until September.

My eldest is 12 and since finishing Year 7 he's suddenly decided he's practically an
adult. He keeps pushing the boundaries with his curfew. We live in Knaresborough and lately he's been wanting to spend more time in Harrogate with his friends which we've been allowing a bit as long as he's back when we've agreed.

Now today he's started asking if they can all get the train into Leeds. Ive said no. To me that's completely different to knocking about Harrogate for a couple of hours

He's argued every angle. Apparently "everyone else's parents let them". Apparently they'll only be looking round the shops. Apparently they'll stay together the whole time. Honestly ive heard it all today.

OH agrees with me thankfully but my eldest thinks we're treating him like he's about 8. Hes been stomping round the house ever since and keeps saying we're the only parents saying no.

Maybe i am old fashioned i dont know. It just feels like once they're in a city you've got no idea where they actually are and if something goes wrong they're a train ride away instead of ten minutes in the car.

Just wondering what other people would do with a 12 year old over the summer holidays because if this is only week two i think im in for a very long six weeks.

AIBU to say absolutely not to Leeds?

Agreed things have changed a lot since a lot of us were young.
The black /grey brigade targeting youngsters for their phones etc.
I used to go to the football myself at 9 ( except Celtic or Rangers) into town at 11 but that was 50 yrs ago.

If you are a lone woman waiting for a bus outside the corn exchange at 10pm then I wish you luck. Not something I would ever do but then it's bad enough during day light hours.

Yes.
And yes, the city centre is like a shopping centre. You know, full of shops and cafés and cinemas.

They aren't cruising Chapeltown at midnight, they're getting a train in the daytime to the city centre, having a wander and a McDonald's or Jolibee or whatever, having a bit of independence. Probably buying an overpriced trendy soft drink while they're at it.

I must live very close to you. Mine has just finished year 9. She has been allowed Harrogate and York for the last couple of years. They feel smaller, safer and easier to get to. She’s just started getting the bus to Leeds.

Of course the centre of Leeds is safe for a bunch of 12 year olds and so is the centre of London - which is infinitely bigger and wilder.

Thanks for that insight for us that aren't familiar with Leeds.

Exactly.

If you're finding Leeds itself worrying, York would be pretty quick and easy on the train from Knaresborough?

I wouldn’t let him either. I live in a city and in the holidays the place is full of loud kids/teenagers in groups shouting, littering, just being general nuisances. I have two older teens and I never let them hang around the city centre (even though they could walk to it) or parks with their mates when they were younger because as I told them, even if they don’t want to do anything wrong, it is hard to stand up to your mates if they’re misbehaving. I encouraged them to make firm plans of going to the cinema or bowling or swimming or something but to be honest they mainly played online games with their friends and now they’re older they meet up for pub lunches or a game of snooker.

This is the most important post in the thread - no good can come of it.

There are enough gangs of marauding teenage and preteen roadman wannabes without your son adding to it.

I live in a town about 30 minutes by bus outside Leeds and my 13 year old (between year 8 and 9) hasn't gone in by himself yet. So no is reasonable.

I do wonder though, could you go in with him and his friends and do something totally different with your other two? If you went in in the morning, had different plans for an activity and lunch and then met again at the station?

Absolutely not.

But perhaps compromise and tell him to organise a day where you'll drive him in to Leeds (or to a park and ride) with his friends and drive them home a couple of hours later. Maybe drive in late morning and 'treat' them all to lunch, which is really keeping a closer eye but hey. Then they are just alone in the big city for an hour or two?

My DS first started wanting to go into town around 11/12 and out of curiosity i actually had a little bit of a stalk of him one day just to see what he and his friends were up to as I needed to be in town.
i saw him being really silly doing things like racing around a department store and going up the escalators the wrong way.

There’s a lot of teen trouble in various city centres at the moment as reported by different PP.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with him heading into that. What’s he want to do? Just hang around: which often turns into them bored and causing mischief or accidently attracting trouble from older kids possibly etc. He doesn’t sound particularly street wise and needs to learn trains/public transport. It won’t be ‘everyone’ going there will be a couple and everyone else telling their reluctant parents that everyone is going but them.

You feel so grown up when young but it’s not that simple.

Of course good can come of it. My son went to a city an hour away on the train.
He got the train with his friends, went shopping, got some food, went to an arcade, went to see a football stadium, got some more food and got the train home.
He learned how to navigate train changes on his own, was shocked at the cost of his favourite fast food places and how much the arcade cost and had a great time. All good.

Quite.

I spoke with my young adult children about this - they were 12 not so long ago and also are regularly in Leeds.

They laughed at the idea Leeds is full of predators and students looking to exploit 12 year olds from Knaresborough.

Their consensus:
"As long as her 12 year old has been brought up to be a normal, capable kid, there's no reason to stop him. If he's got additional needs, fair enough, leave it a bit.
"It's a lot less hassle on the train than the bus. Students ignore young kids and the city centre is extremely compact and easy to navigate. There are even big display boards with maps.
"Being targeted or mugged? As if. Pickpockets, definitely, but 12 year olds rarely have stuff worth pickpocketing, and that's just as big a risk in Harrogate and York.
"If there was some kind of emergency, the mum is 30 minutes away by car. That's nothing.
"There's a massive Trivial Pursuit game running in the city, there are Lego and Apple and milkshake shops, there are cheap cinemas like The Light. It's a lot of fun for 12-15 year olds to have for not much money. Plus the river taxi to the Armouries is cool."

I hope that reassures the OP and anyone else thinking the perfectly nice centre of Leeds isn't a dangerous crack den on a Wednesday afternoon.

Thanks for mentioning the water taxi. I was going to mention the Royal Armouries but thought it might be a bit far/risk of getting lost from the station, but the water taxi makes it much easier and a fun way to get there.

The "stomping round the house" tells you all you need to know - he's sulking because he's not getting his own way, which is childish (I mean, he is a child......) and not the behaviour I'd expect from someone who wants to be trusted to do more grown up things. Stick to your guns - it's not unreasonable to say no..........your house, your rules. I'd hazard a guess you aren't the only one to say no if I'm honest........

It’s good to have a bit of sanity on the thread,

It would be funny were it not for the fact that this is an element in why so many kids land up at university totally unable to cope with looking after themselves.

As someone who lives in the York area and commutes to Leeds, I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting a 12-year-old go alone, especially one who doesn’t know Leeds well. It’s a big city, and certain parts are a bit dodgy (which is the case anywhere TBF, but combined with age and distance I’d say no).

I’d be more inclined to let a sensible 14/15 year old go though.

If they all get the train and stick together why not? Usually when I went into a big town/city at 13 we stuck together but had a plan, eg get McDs then cinema. Or shops, McDonalds then home.

As long as he has enough money I can’t see the issue. From googling it takes 51 mins and trains depart every 19 mins.

But he’s going and presumably returning with friends, not alone.

What type of a kid is he generally? Does he play sports? Youth orchestra? Cadets? Or does he dress in black and hang around in street corners? Because if he and his friends are anything like the gangs of mini roadmen who plague our town centre, I'd be grateful if you said no.
And after he stomped around the house, it'd be a definite no.

Agreed it looks fun and gives him independence. Or do parents want to let their son sit at home gaming all day? It’s hardly like Dickens’ London with the Artful Dodger recruiting children.