To say 12 is still too young to be going into Leeds with friends in the holidays?

[Calmuntilfriday]

Please don't all shout at me because i genuinely don't know if im being too overprotective or not

Its only the second week of the summer holidays and i already feel like we're going to be counting the days until September.

My eldest is 12 and since finishing Year 7 he's suddenly decided he's practically an
adult. He keeps pushing the boundaries with his curfew. We live in Knaresborough and lately he's been wanting to spend more time in Harrogate with his friends which we've been allowing a bit as long as he's back when we've agreed.

Now today he's started asking if they can all get the train into Leeds. Ive said no. To me that's completely different to knocking about Harrogate for a couple of hours

He's argued every angle. Apparently "everyone else's parents let them". Apparently they'll only be looking round the shops. Apparently they'll stay together the whole time. Honestly ive heard it all today.

OH agrees with me thankfully but my eldest thinks we're treating him like he's about 8. Hes been stomping round the house ever since and keeps saying we're the only parents saying no.

Maybe i am old fashioned i dont know. It just feels like once they're in a city you've got no idea where they actually are and if something goes wrong they're a train ride away instead of ten minutes in the car.

Just wondering what other people would do with a 12 year old over the summer holidays because if this is only week two i think im in for a very long six weeks.

AIBU to say absolutely not to Leeds?

Not to scare you at all, but familiarise yourself with the signs of county lines activity

Of course. Dealing is the most obvious choice of activity for 12 year old boys.

It's not very old fashioned to restrict 12 year olds from going off on their own. Old fashioned people wouldn't bat an eyelid! The freedom to roam for kids has been drastically restricted over the last 50 years.

Plenty of 12 year olds live in Leeds and manage in the city just fine. The issue really is has your DS built up the skills he needs to be able to navigate it well? And what are his friends like?

He's been building up with trips to Harrogate. How have they gone? How are his problem solving skills? His ability to navigate somewhere he hasn't been before? Has he managed any blips like transport difficulties that he's problem solved and worked around? Any suggestion they're actually making trouble or shoplifting or the like? Do he or his friends worry you in terms of doing stupid things or being, for want of a better term, "trouble"?

He would be further away, but it's not as though it's another country and there are no emergency services if something serious happens (which is vanishingly unlikely). He'd just have to wait a little longer.

In general, I think going as a group is likely to be a good introduction to a bigger city. More minds to pull on if something goes wrong like the trains getting canceled. More phones to borrow if someone loses theirs, etc. Groups of kids do get loud and silly but that's going to be the case for most of the rest of his life. they still provide a safety net.

I wouldn't believe him that his friends have all already been given permission, though. I bet most of them are having the very same conversation with their parents!

There's no way I would let my 12 year old go into our local city with his mates. He would get lost and is easy prey.

I think this is true: we have a DS who pushed boundaries from an early age because he wanted independence more than anything else. Since he was 12/13 (he’s now nearly 16) it’s been a constant negotiation to help meet that need in him and yet always ensure we feel comfortable with it and that he’s safe. It is a personality thing - some kids don’t want to be out and about at that age, some kids take no for an answer, and others like my son want it and is articulate enough for a war of attrition.

I’m not saying give in to everything but accept that you have to look at things through the lens of the child you have. It would have become a constant battleground if we hadn’t and I suspect DS would have just got sneaky to get his way. So, as a result Our DS has a lot of freedom but he’s very communicative, open and always gets home, for example, on time (I don’t think he’s ever been late without calling us) - because his needs are being met. he’s also doing well at school, which was another of my essentials from his side if he wants us to to treat him more maturely.

It would be a no from me. Stop worrying about being ‘mean’ you don’t need to appease a 12 year old, he is still very much a child op.

Exactly. A group of boys with no purpose. What could go wrong?

I’m outside Leeds (30 mins on the train). My youngest has just finished Y7 and I’ve allowed her to go into Leeds w a friend if I’m in Leeds (as a PP said, they can take the same train as me but sit in selerate carriage etc). She’s 13 in January and I’m not yet comfortable about letting her go into Leeds on her own. My older kids were more like 14 when they went into Leeds on their own.

‘The funny thing is, he doesn’t even like shopping’.

Do you think they are planning on meeting some girls? 😀

I really sympathise with you because I’m very anxious with my children. I remember my DD’s friend’s mum (who lived in a small town some distance from ours) telling me I was overprotective because I didn’t want her to get the train to her friends house and preferred to drive her instead. She was 11 at the time.

Year 7 is still pretty young, especially for a boy and I’d be inclined to come down on your side tbh.

There's more to Leeds than just shops. There are museums and cafes in abundance. There's a cat cafe 😻- not that that would be the obvious choice for young lads!

It’s a tough one, I’m a mum of teenagers and been in the same position, I also work in Leeds so am familiar. The problem is if everyone else is genuinely allowed to go you run the risk of him just going and not telling you at some point because he knows the answer will be no if he asks. I’d be inclined to let him go to be honest with some rules and what to do if there were any problems. I think going for a day out, sticking to busy areas and coming home before it gets late would be very safe

Would it be acceptable if you went with him on the train, then he goes off for 1 hour or so and comes back to meet you and siblings at a designated place, repeat and then all home together. He can work out trains/tickets/platforms and get a taste of freedom whilst you are close.

I did this with my daughter going to our nearest big town at 11/12 and it was one she knew well and went to often with us. At 13 she now gets the train with her friends on her own. I still wouldn’t want her to go to a city on her own like London yet though!!

I'm not sure I'd trust any of the 12-year-olds I know (especially the boys!) on their own in a big city. Not because I'd particularly worry they'd be mugged or anything but I can easily imagine them getting lost, putting themselves in danger in traffic etc.

Are you mad? It's Leeds, FFS, not Beirut.

First of all Leeds is a small city and secondly, what do you think 12 year old boys do who live in cities? Do they just stay inside?

Why not suggest that a few of the other Mums travel with you ,that way the boys could have some time on their own and then meet up with their Mums at a later time. Personally I think teenage boys can be a lot less street wise than teenage girls. I dread to think what would happen if they meet a group of older teenagers.

From my memories of doing just that yes it’s far too young. Maybe 14 if sensible, 16 if not.

Centre of Leeds was where all the older teens hung out smoking weed and give it to any teeny bopper who asked and laughing at them when they whitied.

Are you from Leeds? Children don’t really live in the centre… it’s all students and people in their 20s. Everyone else lives in rings and villages outside of the centre. Its not that small either, there are parks and skate parks, alleys and bars and side streets and rivers. All places where tweens can get up to no good and DO. And where some freak adults hang out with groups of teens especially those in care for some reason.

Centre of Leeds isn’t like going to a shopping centre.

Apologies if this has been said already but ring a couple of other parents and ask them?

I’ve been to Leeds but I live in London… everyone needs to get a grip.

Our local schools, specifically Gorse Academies used to finish at lunch time at the end of term and apparently the children were using the opportunity to go into Leeds.

Parents received letters stating they were stopping the end of term early finishes to try and prevent the children loitering in Leeds. If memory serves me correctly, it was due to young children being approached by gangs.

Obviously they cannot stop what they do after school finishes or out of school hours but they definitely didn't want anything happening due to early school finishes.

I personally would not allow it for a child age 12.

Well I am FROM Leeds and have lived in London for the last decade. The centre of Leeds isn’t safe for a 12 year old. There are some really unsafe areas - not from a gang or violence viewpoint but from an unsafe adults manipulating children viewpoint. Lots of older and student people who haven’t been checked to be safe around a 12yo at the skate parks and corn exchange etc.

You having been to Leeds doesn’t mean you know it intimately.

Blimey. And here's me regularly going to Leeds in the early evening while the shops are still open and then to Trinity kitchen for an early dinner and even going to the the theatre before catching the late bus home without a care in the world.

I must have been walking around with a bag on my head or this is a wild exaggeration.

But seriously, if he's not been before, perhaps a family 'orientation' visit with him taking the lead is a good idea, just to see for yourself what the atmosphere is like. Has any of the other boys been before? Would he know which train to get back?

Also think about what he'd do if there's a problem with the trains. Worst case scenario that does happen is that all the trains are cancelled due to signalling or electrical failure, or because someone has been hit by a train. I expect there's a bus to Harrogate at least that he could get where you could collect him, or he could get another bus or train, so go through this with him. Also, how careful is he with his phone? Does he have a power bank? Would he be able to get in touch with you even indirectly such as via a friend's DM, if his phone was stolen, not that it feels like a common risk in Leeds?

Your an adult.

Assuming you are not going to be getting involved with gangs, undesirables, county lines. Of course parents are going to be more careful with a CHILD!

ffs I despair sometimes.

DH used to go in to London for school every day from age 11 on the train but they were different times. There was still danger but it’s the ready accessibility of drugs that has changed so much since we were children. I went in to the nearest city to us recently, not Leeds and the police were after loads of kids all in balaclavas. Too much gang stuff round drugs for my liking. Can also see people out of their heads on spice.

People are painting the city like it's like the wild west. Who's to say that a group of 12 YO boys who are likely going to be wandering around the trinity centre looking at the Apple and Lego shops on Saturday afternoon are any more at risk than a lone woman waiting at the bus stop outside the Corn Exchange at 10 pm on Friday night?