DS attacked another child at soft play unprovoked - AIBU to think we’ve reached crisis point now?

[donyak]

I dont even know where to start but I took my youngest to soft play today, my older boys were at school and I thought it would be nice to have an hour just me and him but we ended up leaving after 20 minutes because he attacked a little boy

When I say attacked I don’t mean a squabble over a toy. He barged him over and then climbed on top of him and was hitting him before I got there. The other little boy was crying and his mum was understandably furious with me. She kept saying “get him off” as though I wasn’t already trying, I apologised over and over and did offer to pay for a new drink for the little boy as it had done everywhere but they weren’t interested. Another parent was saying I shouldn’t bring a child like that to soft play

He’s only just turned 3 but everyone thinks he’s older because he’s so tall, he’s built like a 5 year old so people expect him to behave like one too which doesn’t help as mentally he’s still only 3. But when he loses it he’s so strong it isn’t just a tantrum where you can pick him up and take him away. He kicks, headbutts and lashes out

I’ve tried all the obvious things. I don’t smack or shout all the time. He has routines, he sleeps fairly well most nights but usually in with me. He eats alright apart from vegetables. I’ve read books, watched videos, spoke to nursery when he was there, spoken to health visitor, tried reward charts which did nothing.

His nursery asked him to leave about 6 weeks ago. They said they couldn’t keep everyone safe anymore and they didn’t have enough staff to give him the support he needed. There had been biting, pushing and one incident where he threw a wooden block . They said they were sorry but thought another setting would be better suited

I can’t find anywhere else it’s either full or has waiting lists. A couple have asked why he’s left his previous nursery and when I’m honest I hear nothing back. It’s meant I can’t work as there’s no one to have him. Their mum died 2 years ago

And I’m trying to keep things normal for them but every month something goes wrong. there’s no family that could help, my parents are gone and my wife’s parents live hours away and aren’t well enough to have an energetic 3 year old

I’ve spoken to the GP, we’ve been referred for assessments and everyone agrees he needs looking at but there’s waiting lists and I’m just trying to make sure he doesn’t hurt anyone else or himself which didn’t work today

People assume because he’s badly behaved I’m useless and maybe I am I don’t know anymore. I’m exhausted all the time and always watching him and then feel guilty as the older boys need my attention too

Today at soft play he was laughing and climbing like any other child and then another boy ran past him and he just launched himself at him.

Afterwards he cried and cuddled into me whilst I was carrying him out and he kept asking if I was cross and I said yes I was.

I just sat there thinking is this it now? Do I just stop taking him places because it isn’t fair on other children? But then it’s not fair on his brothers to not go anywhere as it’s nearly the summer holidays and how does he ever learn?

Maybe grief has affected him more than I realised because he was young so he didn’t really understand compared to my older boys. Maybe I’ve made mistakes or been too soft or maybe I’ve been too strict because I’m worried about his behaviour

I just feel completely stuck

This sounds so rough, sorry.
Some stuff that might help;
Homestart if they have it in your area, a nice volunteer comes over and helps with the parenting maybe they could do this sl you could have some time with your older sons?
Right to choose- quicker access to assessments
Health visitor- maybe able to help link you in with services for families with children with SEND/ trauma.

You're doing the best with what you have. Thats all any of us can do.

Yes it does sound like you've reached crisis point, sorry. If you haven't already I would ask your GP to refer you to the community paediatrician for concerns about his development. Some posters on here are implying that it's definitely grief/trauma which it could be, but do keep an open mind about Autism or ADHD. Sometimes it can be a combination of different things.

If you can't find a nursery or preschool to take him there are SEN placements where there would be more adults and experience with challenging behaviour.

You sound as though you need a break too. Can you get any help from friends?
Could you afford a baby sitter to come to the house and play with the children. Even if you didn't want to go out you might get a cup of tea in peace.

I didn't say bereavement counselling if you care to read my post properly.
I said advice.

It won’t help for the summer holidays but have you tried school nurseries?

Give yourself a break. It sounds like you’re trying your very best in difficult circumstances. It can’t be at all easy to not have anyone who can help or give you a break.

What kind of assessments has he been referred for?

My advice would be:

• Start taking notes on your phone if you can of anything you’re concerned about. Think about speech and his understanding of language, behaviour, social skills, gross and fine motor skills, play skills, attention/concentration, toileting, eating, level of independence. This kind of thing will be really helpful if you come to assessments.
• Call tomorrow to ask for a DLA application form to be sent out. You’ll have a few weeks to complete the form and it will be backdated to the day you called to ask for the form. The worst that can happen is they don’t give you anything. You can get support from Citizen’s Advice to complete the form. Any financial support would help relieve additional pressure if you can’t work at the moment.
• Find a folder and/or an email folder and start gathering evidence - anything from the nursery which explains why they couldn’t keep continue to care for him. Rejections from other nurseries. You can request your son’s medical records from the GP so you have a copy of the referral, wherever that is to. Information from the health visitor.
• Try to make expectations for behaviour really clear for your son when you’re out and about. Think about the behaviour you want to change and think of a positive opposite. So he kicks and hits. You tell him before you go in that you he needs to have KIND HANDS and KIND FEET. A quick google would give you some visuals you could use to support those expectations. Try to give him opportunities to show off those skills and praise him when he uses kind hands and kind feet (a cuddle, holding hands, a foot massage).
• Absolutely contact bereavement charities for advice but talking with him about his mum and how much she loved him would be good. Some pictures stories talking about death such as The Invisible String, Goodbye Mog (ask in your local library) which you can share with him. Print off photos of him with his mum when he was a baby and make a simple book (This is mummy and Sam when Sam was born. This is Sam having a cuddle with mummy. This is mummy pushing Sam on the swing.)
• Try to think carefully about whether there are any triggers to difficult behaviour.
• Shortly after an incident of difficulty behaviour, when you’re both calm, talk to him about it. You don’t need to ask him questions because he’s only three and probably can’t fully understand his own behaviour, but just tell him. ‘I was really cross when you pushed that little boy in the play centre today because you hurt him. That makes daddy sad. You need to have kind hands when we’re playing with other boys and girls.’
• If he has a lot of energy, try giving him ‘heavy’ work activities. Obviously not something that is going to hurt him, but carrying a backpack with some things in it, things that involve pushing, pulling, swinging, carrying. A wheelbarrow, gardening, hoovering, carrying a washing basket, digging at the beach, swimming. Also chewing chewy foods or sucking through a straw or blowing bubbles can be helpful calming activities.
• Spend some time every day doing a turn taking activity with him. Throwing a ball. Building a tower. Knocking stuff down. Use the words ‘my turn, your turn’
• Don’t stop taking him out and do keep showing him that you love him.
• Try to find some support or counselling for you. It is hard.

While I understand that, I also think that with this nice weather it would have been better to take him to a park somewhere like that rather than a loud, nosy play place with kids running everywhere.
While I'm very sympathetic, I would be furious if a child with any special needs had attacked my child totally unprovoked like yours did.

Do you have enough money to pay for a private assessment?

Then you don't take them to places where you can't stick beside them. I'm not saying this to be judgemental, my little one went through a similar phase and I had to stop things like soft play and stick to activities where I could watch them like a hawk and be right there if any bother happened. My little one went through a hitting phase and it was awful. But it most definitely wasn't on for my DC to be hitting other children and I had to be proactive about protecting other kids while mine went through this phase.

This sounds so hard & you sound like you are doing your best. I would look for a school nursery as they often have better SEN provision than private ones & even if there’s no SEN issue they might well be better at supporting your son through grief.
As PP have suggested I’d also keep notes on your phone so it’s easy & you can just do it as you go along, noting anything that happens that you can talk to the health visitor or whoever about.
I’d ask the nursery who asked him to leave to write a note on his behaviour there so you can use that for the EHCP.
I’d avoid soft play & busy playgrounds as they are so intense & I’d focus on quieter play environments & maybe involve water where you can if your son finds that soothing - mine did.
I’d try to use play dough or kinetic sand at home. Both are really soothing to play with & quite grounding.
If finances allow (& perhaps you might save on nursery fees if you go to a school one) I would try to introduce an experienced babysitter to give you a break now & then & so there is another adult in your children’s lives that they trust.
I hope you get the support you need & that things get easier for you.

Check out resources from Seasaw child bereavement charity. There are some really good books about grief and loss aimed at young children. Also some movies can help talk about it in a way young children can understand. Finding Dory, for example.

My best advice is to not put him in positions where he can lose it like that. A bit like training a puppy - always close supervision no crowded places. He’s too young to reason with so try and ensure it never happens. So don’t allow him to think he is a “bad child”. Also try and keep his meals (particularly breakfast)protein rich - it can help.

Hope for the future: DS1 was reasonably “spicy” at that age he is now the mildest mannered, gentlest 19 year old that you will ever met.

Hey, I see you have had loads of replies and it sounds like you are crazy busy but I’m just throwing my 2p at the situation.

As an Early Years Teacher, the behaviour you describe at Nursery is BY FAR not the worst I’ve ever dealt with! It’s not great but f the Nursery could support a recently bereaved child with these behaviours, they weren’t worth your money anyway.

I would speak to the school. They are likely to fight to make an exception for you given they know your situation. Try to get him into Nursery there and get him the interventions the older boys got. I know it won’t give you loads of time to work but it’s something and will be setting him up for success in Reception.

The book I’m linking at the bottom is a really good one for dipping in and out of. It is written with care experienced children in mind but it really applies to any trauma. It is sorted by behaviour (I.e self harm) and discusses what you might see (cutting hair in preschool to cutting skin in adolescence) and gives several practical tips. I think it would be a good investment for you and all three boys. It’s very short to read, I often read snippets during a break before returning to the classroom to apply it.

https://uk.jkp.com/products/the-az-of-therapeutic-parenting?srsltid=AfmBOooMGAP0ZirIwHiXfn3l15lnnrEh09NQ58VY9AE1XNnxipx31uaq

Forgot to add, please apply for DLA!
fill it out talking about him on his worst day.
don’t question yourself that he only does that sometimes.

I think this is brilliant advice. I have 3 ND children, my youngest Ds was very like the OP's son. The only thing I would change about what you have said is ‘I was really cross when you pushed that little boy in the play centre today because you hurt him. That makes daddy sad.

I would take all emotion out of it, he doesn't need to be responsible for Dads feelings, he doesn't know how to manage his own.
I used to say to DS 'We don't hit other people, it's not kind and it hurts'. And remove him from the situation. I did a lot of reading over the years about how much guilt and shame autistic people carry about their behaviour. If he's ND or not he's only little.

My ds was really hard work for many,many years and I couldn't take my eyes off him, but I was consistent and mainly calm, we had some really tough years then suddenly everything I'd ever modelled, all of the thousand of times I'd repeated myself, and doubted myself came to fruition. The final product is a thoroughly decent , thoughtful, kind and unbelievably calm human adult.

OP please go back to your GP and HV. Ensure you use statements along the lines of

• “this is having a detrimental affect on our family unit”
• “this is have a massive effect on my mental health as a parent”
• ”I don’t feel the current situation can persist much longer”
• ”we have reached crisis point and it can no longer continue”

Ensure it’s all fully documented correctly, ask for it be put in your notes correctly (not the GP just paraphrasing).

You need more help and I’m so sorry for your loss. I know you are tired and drained please keep pushing as much as you can.

As the saying goes, "all behaviour is communication" and he is too little to be able to express his feelings verbally. All he knows is his mum went away when he was tiny and very dependent on her and he is upset. I too would urge you to contact Winston's Wish Winston's Wish - Bereavement Support for Children. Please ignore the nasty comments, you sound like a wonderfully caring dad trying to do the very best for his children.

It wasn’t my child that attacked another child

Sorry you’re going through this OP.

Is there any possibility he could be being bullied by one or both of his older brothers? Not necessarily intentionally but maybe through play being rougher than it should be for his age, because of his size? I only ask because it’s a behaviour I’ve seen before and that was the cause. This particular child became pretty violent in social settings when he was away from his older brother, and it eventually emerged he was emulating the treatment he’d received at home. It’s pretty impossible to watch them every second they’re at home if you’re parenting alone.

Hi. Hugs, you are dealing with a lot.

Firstly, I wanted to check that you are in England, because a lot of what people are advising you eg ehc plans only applies in England.

Secondly, nurseries, even private nurseries, can't just remove children. They need to try reasonable adjustments. It's a bit of a grey area tbh- I suggest you speak to the early years team at your LA and see what they can suggest.

Thirdly, you need to get to the bottom of what is causing his behaviour, obviously, and atm grief, autism and adhd are being mentioned. I have 2 adopted children and at first everyone put their problems down to "attachment", ie early trauma, but in fact it turned out to be asd and adhd. I have no idea what is causing your son's problems, but I would keep an open mind and not assume it is eg grief.

I know a little boy at a nursery who suddenly grabs a worker's arm and bites hard for no obvious reason. He is diagnosed autistic and can't be removed from the nursery as this counts as sen.

I just mention him because he sounds more similar to your son tbh. Grief is definitely worth exploring but there could be more going on.

If you can, I suggest you get him assessed privately by a sensory integration therapist/ OT and a speech and language therspist. They will be able to pick up concerns around asd or adhd even though they can't diagnose. But you can use the reports to work out where to go and what to do next.

If you are in England I suggest you contact an organisation called SOS!SEN for advice on what to do about an ehc.

In the meantime, stick to places like open parkland where he can climb on logs etc rather than taking him to places where he will become disregulated. Get hold of the book The Out of Synch Child and start making sensory changes. None of it will harm him.

Best of luck. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of angry parents x

A family member had a child who behaved like this in nursery . They found a childminder and he thrived . He was overwhelmed by being around so many other children . He is older now and doesn’t not lash out the way he did when he was 2-4 .You are already seeking help from your gp so that sounds good. It sounds like you really are trying your best and you are going through a lot . Soft play is not good , very hard to keep an eye on them as it’s chaotic . You could go out to other places , parks or open farms where it will be easier. You just need to stay very close to him all the time in case he lashes out .

My friend has found these charities incredibly useful: Winston’s Wish, Macmillan and WAY (Widowed And Young)

You have all been through so much and whilst your youngest was very little, children are more affected by the death of a parent than many people realise.

Wishing you all the best xx

@BeSunnyLemonSheep I know I’ll be deleted for this but you don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re attacking the OP and you’re taking as much delight in being ‘controversial’ here as the other threads on which I’ve encountered you. So with the greatest respect, if you can’t say anything positive or helpful why don’t you just fuck off and find another thread ?

You cannot bring him to places like that when he is violent. All children deserve to be safe from harm. I’d contact your GP and ask to be sign posted for further support. I’m sorry you are going through this.

I'm sorry I haven't RTFTbut Relate do specialist grief counselling for bereaved children. When I was teaching we had a group of under 8s who had all been bereaved , in different ways over the last few years. Relate provided a term of play-based therapy, which seemed to help them all.

If your other children are older, do you make sure that they don't 'playfight/wrestle' with him which might give him mixed messages about what is acceptable in social interactions?
Unfortunately physically larger children often are treated by adults in positions of some authority, as if they are older
This could be something that you have to guard against throughout his Primary school years
Do ask your HV/GP for a referral to Early Help.