DS attacked another child at soft play unprovoked - AIBU to think we’ve reached crisis point now?

[donyak]

I dont even know where to start but I took my youngest to soft play today, my older boys were at school and I thought it would be nice to have an hour just me and him but we ended up leaving after 20 minutes because he attacked a little boy

When I say attacked I don’t mean a squabble over a toy. He barged him over and then climbed on top of him and was hitting him before I got there. The other little boy was crying and his mum was understandably furious with me. She kept saying “get him off” as though I wasn’t already trying, I apologised over and over and did offer to pay for a new drink for the little boy as it had done everywhere but they weren’t interested. Another parent was saying I shouldn’t bring a child like that to soft play

He’s only just turned 3 but everyone thinks he’s older because he’s so tall, he’s built like a 5 year old so people expect him to behave like one too which doesn’t help as mentally he’s still only 3. But when he loses it he’s so strong it isn’t just a tantrum where you can pick him up and take him away. He kicks, headbutts and lashes out

I’ve tried all the obvious things. I don’t smack or shout all the time. He has routines, he sleeps fairly well most nights but usually in with me. He eats alright apart from vegetables. I’ve read books, watched videos, spoke to nursery when he was there, spoken to health visitor, tried reward charts which did nothing.

His nursery asked him to leave about 6 weeks ago. They said they couldn’t keep everyone safe anymore and they didn’t have enough staff to give him the support he needed. There had been biting, pushing and one incident where he threw a wooden block . They said they were sorry but thought another setting would be better suited

I can’t find anywhere else it’s either full or has waiting lists. A couple have asked why he’s left his previous nursery and when I’m honest I hear nothing back. It’s meant I can’t work as there’s no one to have him. Their mum died 2 years ago

And I’m trying to keep things normal for them but every month something goes wrong. there’s no family that could help, my parents are gone and my wife’s parents live hours away and aren’t well enough to have an energetic 3 year old

I’ve spoken to the GP, we’ve been referred for assessments and everyone agrees he needs looking at but there’s waiting lists and I’m just trying to make sure he doesn’t hurt anyone else or himself which didn’t work today

People assume because he’s badly behaved I’m useless and maybe I am I don’t know anymore. I’m exhausted all the time and always watching him and then feel guilty as the older boys need my attention too

Today at soft play he was laughing and climbing like any other child and then another boy ran past him and he just launched himself at him.

Afterwards he cried and cuddled into me whilst I was carrying him out and he kept asking if I was cross and I said yes I was.

I just sat there thinking is this it now? Do I just stop taking him places because it isn’t fair on other children? But then it’s not fair on his brothers to not go anywhere as it’s nearly the summer holidays and how does he ever learn?

Maybe grief has affected him more than I realised because he was young so he didn’t really understand compared to my older boys. Maybe I’ve made mistakes or been too soft or maybe I’ve been too strict because I’m worried about his behaviour

I just feel completely stuck

So sorry for the situation you’ve found yourself in, it must be incredibly tough.

Not a solution but in the short term could you maybe take them to places where he can let off a bit of steam without so many other kids around? I’m thinking along the lines of wooded areas (where he can bash some
sticks about), streams / ponds (to skim stones / plop them in the water), big hills (just to run down / roll down & be as wild as he wants).

I'm really sorry for your loss OP.

This all sounds grief related, but I also wanted to say that three year olds just do weird and violent shit sometimes without that added complication. There's often not much point in asking them - they'll probably not be able to remember/explain why.

Look for nurseries with SEN attached 1:1 placements. My child was similar at that age and we had to shadow them. To give you hope they have much less challenging behaviour now. Only when fight or flight gets triggered which is much less.

A nursery which has trained staff will be able to help you as a family and massively make improvements for your child’s coping mechanisms.

He's 3 years old. He doesn't need to have seen violence to behave like a 3 year old. Even a child with great speech and emotional intelligence doesn't have the skills to understand and explain themselves at 3. And this little boy has experienced great trauma and lives with a family who are all trying to process their grief.

Hi - what are you like finance wise? Could you pay for a private assessment? If you can then do it.

It Sounds like he may be getting over whelmed and over stimulated and acts impulsively - I would try low arousal places at times when it’s not busy such as the park on a weekday and build up from there if it’s possible. If you’re interested I can signpost you to some resources that might help - I work as a SEND advisor. Feel free to DM me as I’m happy to help but can’t be bothered arguing with people on here who largely don’t know what they’re talking about 😂

He’s not seen violence anywhere, it’s just me and his brothers at home and he’s not seen any of us be violent and he’s never been hit so I don’t know where it’s came from or why he behaves like this

The school nursery is a good idea I’ve been so focused on a new private nursery as it feels too late to apply for a September start at the school nursery but I’ll ring then tomorrow and see what they say

I’m probably not looking after myself very well if I’m honest. Most days I’m trying to make sure everyone is fed, dressed and where they need to be and when they’re in bed I’m exhausted

He doesn’t actually have loads of sugar. The odd treat now and then but he doesn’t have sweets or fizzy drinks daily or anything like that. He eats pretty much everything I give him except vegetables

We do spend a lot of time outside as he is happier running around than being stuck indoors so we go to the park daily and the beach often as we’re not far and he is calmer outside but I still have to watch if there’s loads of children

He wasn’t happy or laughing when he attacked the child so he wasn’t playing he just looked really cross and after he was crying and saying sorry and asking if I was cross

I don’t think there are any sensory issues involved

I remember a child attacked my child in a similar way to how you describe once when they were both 3.

If it makes you feel better, I just felt really bad for the parents and what they had to deal with the whole time. My child spoke about the "rough boy" for the next couple of days and then completely forgot about it.

I hope you get the support you need and I hope the other boy is also doing ok. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

I think it would have been ok to say to the other parent, "I am so, so sorry. His behaviour has been really unpredictable since his mum died." I think at least that would help them understand.

This is not meant to come across as a shit comment, but it does come from experience. SEN sessions can be better for some , but there are some SEN kids who would not recover well if the same incident was to happen again, so please be extremely careful. I’ve never set foot in one again after my toddler was attacked.

It must be incredibly difficult coping with the loss of your spouse. It's easy to assume that younger children would cope better as they were too young to understand, in reality though it's totally opposite, losing a main caregiver before 2 years old can cause attachment problems. It may be worthwhile you reading up on it and seeing if some of his behaviours fit into that category. Perhaps get in touch with the Dr to ask for what help may be available. Good luck, I hope you get some support

So many sanctimonious mumsnet morons, so little time.

I can hear the exhaustion in your post and I am so sorry you are going through this. It does sound like you have tried everything reasonably available to you.

It does sound like grief, and also naturally the stress of family dynamics in the wake off loss, has had a profound effect on your son.

But, as some form of reassurance, my nephew was like this. If he was at all surprised or there was a sudden movement etc he would absolutely lose it and lash out violently. All the time.

He had dyspraxia of speech. Essentially, it created a profound communication barrier and frustration. His nervous system was always on high alert because he couldn't regulate or communicate overwhelm. He was basically always like a tightly coiled spring and any kind of surprise or fast movement would set him off. With SLT, this improved, and he just totally outgrew it as his speech developed. And it was not ASD though he would absolutely have met the criteria when young!

Your son may have ASD, he may not. I don't know if he has issues with his speech. But I wanted to just offer some reassurance that my SIL was exactly where you are when her boy was this age, and they did not even have grief to deal with, and with patience and SLT it all worked out.

If he has speech issues, pursue SLT and don't be palmed off. And obviously wait for the assessments and pursue play therapy and counselling for all of you.

Wishing you loads of luck. You sound like a really lovely parent with a lot to deal with. I really feel for you.

Aww, I’m so sorry. That sounds really tough. He sounds a lot like an autistic boy I used to work with. He acted like your son when anxious or overwhelmed.
Is he better at home? I’m assuming he is.

Play therapist here. I agree with pp who have said the trauma of losing his mum is v possibly at the root of this and sometimes trauma can look like ND. The fact that he was only one makes it harder rather than easier- he was likely pre-verbal and so unable to talk about any of it. A good therapist will help him tell his story and let him express these very difficult feelings. My own DS now 14bwas also rough and lashed out randomly, it's very difficult. He's a great boy now at 14.

How on earth can anyone provide ‘bereavement counselling’ to a child who’s only just turned 3? How can you ‘counsel’ a child whose vocabulary and understanding will be so severely limited?

For sure. Anything that can give you a break!

I am sorry OP.

Aside from everything more complicated going on, just being big for age is actually very hard for children that age: people are much less sympathetic.

I know this feels very serious now - and you clearly need help and support moving through it - but he is very little and this sort of thing can be worked through.

I think bereavement counselling might be the place to start.

It sounds like you are doing an amazing job I'm sending virtual hugs to you and your boys.

Please look up a charity called Winstons Wish. They help children through grief.

Also get back in touch with your health visitor even if you have to badger them.

Agree with other posters re your councils Early Help Support services and look for groups for SEN children. You can meet other people in the same boat too which will be a blessing.

It's doubly difficult for you without family support and your other boys have my sympathy too. When the younger one is in bed try to make some time for you 3 to spend quality time together.

Good luck. Hope things get better for you.
X

Through play. Like anything else at that age.

I’m sorry that is so tough on you all. I don’t have much advice except maybe take him to places where you can be close to him all the time. My grandsons lost their mummy and the youngest used to have temper tantrums but they gradually stopped.
Im sure you are doing a great job.

I would agree with others to refer yourself to council early help. Just say your child is in danger because of their own actions - which they are, because if they behave so erratically they could get themselves in serious danger.

Health visitor and literally beg them for any help available.

My son is autistic and at 3 was just as erratic. He wasn't diagnosed yet, but I did the two things above and we got a lot of help which was genuinely transformative.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure you're not a bad parent. A bad parent wouldn't care enough to be sad and sorry.

I have to agree that this disregulation may be down to the major adverse childhood experience of losing his mum. Even if there is also underlying neurodiversity, that can make trauma hit even harder. Round here, Barnardos do most of the child bereavement work, but that varies from area to area.

They can actually do loads.

Not the same thing but my son is autistic and there is a massive difference in outcomes from autistic kids who are diagnosed early and therefore get a lot of help early on (in the form of yes, therapy - occupational, play, art and speech etc) and those who are diagnosed later and therefore have interventions later.

Kids who are diagnosed earlier tend to be those with more pronounced symptoms so when you consider that alongside better outcomes... yes, we can conclude therapy for 3 year olds definitely does work.

I can imagine that you are exhausted. Are you getting any support for yourself? I know that’s probably the last thing on your list though

Amazingly, there are people trained to do things the rest of us cannot.

I agree with a pp who said grief can present as ND, and I would start there. I mean OP KNOWS he has been bereaved, so it's a valid starting point.

OP, just for now, I wouldn't worry too much about the nursery place. He is clearly needing reassurance from you the way he leaned in for your support afterwards. Maybe with his Dad is the best place for him just now.

I have full respect for how hard you are trying to work through this.

A lot more compassion you’d be a narcissistic, love