DS attacked another child at soft play unprovoked - AIBU to think we’ve reached crisis point now?

[donyak]

I dont even know where to start but I took my youngest to soft play today, my older boys were at school and I thought it would be nice to have an hour just me and him but we ended up leaving after 20 minutes because he attacked a little boy

When I say attacked I don’t mean a squabble over a toy. He barged him over and then climbed on top of him and was hitting him before I got there. The other little boy was crying and his mum was understandably furious with me. She kept saying “get him off” as though I wasn’t already trying, I apologised over and over and did offer to pay for a new drink for the little boy as it had done everywhere but they weren’t interested. Another parent was saying I shouldn’t bring a child like that to soft play

He’s only just turned 3 but everyone thinks he’s older because he’s so tall, he’s built like a 5 year old so people expect him to behave like one too which doesn’t help as mentally he’s still only 3. But when he loses it he’s so strong it isn’t just a tantrum where you can pick him up and take him away. He kicks, headbutts and lashes out

I’ve tried all the obvious things. I don’t smack or shout all the time. He has routines, he sleeps fairly well most nights but usually in with me. He eats alright apart from vegetables. I’ve read books, watched videos, spoke to nursery when he was there, spoken to health visitor, tried reward charts which did nothing.

His nursery asked him to leave about 6 weeks ago. They said they couldn’t keep everyone safe anymore and they didn’t have enough staff to give him the support he needed. There had been biting, pushing and one incident where he threw a wooden block . They said they were sorry but thought another setting would be better suited

I can’t find anywhere else it’s either full or has waiting lists. A couple have asked why he’s left his previous nursery and when I’m honest I hear nothing back. It’s meant I can’t work as there’s no one to have him. Their mum died 2 years ago

And I’m trying to keep things normal for them but every month something goes wrong. there’s no family that could help, my parents are gone and my wife’s parents live hours away and aren’t well enough to have an energetic 3 year old

I’ve spoken to the GP, we’ve been referred for assessments and everyone agrees he needs looking at but there’s waiting lists and I’m just trying to make sure he doesn’t hurt anyone else or himself which didn’t work today

People assume because he’s badly behaved I’m useless and maybe I am I don’t know anymore. I’m exhausted all the time and always watching him and then feel guilty as the older boys need my attention too

Today at soft play he was laughing and climbing like any other child and then another boy ran past him and he just launched himself at him.

Afterwards he cried and cuddled into me whilst I was carrying him out and he kept asking if I was cross and I said yes I was.

I just sat there thinking is this it now? Do I just stop taking him places because it isn’t fair on other children? But then it’s not fair on his brothers to not go anywhere as it’s nearly the summer holidays and how does he ever learn?

Maybe grief has affected him more than I realised because he was young so he didn’t really understand compared to my older boys. Maybe I’ve made mistakes or been too soft or maybe I’ve been too strict because I’m worried about his behaviour

I just feel completely stuck

I am sorry for the loss of your wife.

I think there are things that you need to do:
contact a bereavement charity (Winston’s wish etc) and ask for play based grief counselling

apply for an ehcp. If all the mainstream nurseries are saying that they can’t have him then it’s likely he needs more support than they can offer. However, if he’s not actually in his nursery year, have you applied to a school based LA run nursery as they can’t refuse to have him and would be proactive in getting support.

in the meantime routine, consistency, gentle activities (that don’t overstimulate), good sleep, good diet will all be really important.

He was at a private nursery before and they were really good and tried for a while before saying they couldn’t safely meet his needs anymore. I don’t think his size helps, he’s the same size as his 5 year old brother (and other children in his class) but mentally they’re both in different places but people assume he should act older

His speech is quite good, he talks in sentences and can say what he wants most of the time. He never says why he does things though he just says sorry and laughs when asked why or says he didn’t do anything

the health visitor has referred us and we are waiting to be seen but no one has mentioned portage to me. No one’s mentioned an EHCP either because of his age

The older 2 had grief counselling through school, they were in nursery and reception at the time and had play therapy at the time and they’re still checked on often now but my youngest was only a baby so he didn’t get anything even when he started nursery. His mum died quite suddenly not long after she was diagnosed with cancer

I wasn’t sat around letting him run wild, I was following him around the whole time and I was only a few feet away, one second he was fine and laughing and the next he was attacking the little boy because he’d ran past him. I’ve not applied for DLA because I thought we had to wait until somebody actually tells me what’s going on with him but maybe I’ve been wrong about that

He was so very young when his mum died. All he has known and understood of family is sadness, pain, turbulence and trying to get by. This isn’t your fault. You sound like a great dad who deserves some support. And I hope you get it. Not just slapping a label on your child.

Grief even affects animals so of course it can affect babies.

I’m so sorry OP, you’ve all been through so much 😢

Ignore the poster who asked what your child says when you ask him why he did something. Three year olds are impulsive and I don’t think they ever know why they did something!

Request an EHCNA yourself. DS is not too young.

You don’t need a diagnosis before applying for DLA. You do need evidence but you can use things like evidence from the difficulties at nursery, the referral and the HV.

DS physical ability to speak may be quite good, but I would still look at a referral to SALT. SALT is about far more than the physical ability to speak.

There has been some great suggestions on here and like others despite being so young when he lost his Mum, there will still be trauma and grief, even though he won’t necessarily understand why he is feeling the way he is.
I don’t know if it’s worth looking into a childminder instead of a nursery setting. a more 1:1 setting?
I would also echo someone else’s suggestion of a pre-school attached to a school, they might be more able to accommodate his needs due to the wealth of experience of SEN/Childhood trauma than a private nursery.
I have worked in both and would say a school preschool probably has more support from the wider school staff for advise.

Hi OP I haven't read more than the first page so i dont know if you've had this info. Look for a childminder with loads of experience. He's probably massively overstimulated and triggered by other children at the moment. I have been a childminder for 20 years and I have had several children come to me who have been asked to leave nursery.
You need to be on them, literally stuck to their side, during all the times they are around other children and when they go to hit physically stop their hand with a firm 'no kind hands only', remove them from play for a few minutes to re-regulate and try again.
It's hard going but it is possible to stop the behaviour and you need to tackle it now before he gets too big and ideally before school age.

Get the ehcp application in now, I assume he has another 12 months before he starts school so this will allow you to get things in place.

coild he go to the school nursery in September? They can apply for extra inclusion funding to help to.

ask school who provided the therapy for the older two and see about getting it for him.

also are you getting enough support yourself? Physically and mentally it must be rough doing it alone so please look after yourself

Even though he was just a baby when he lost his mum, he will still have experienced a deep loss (even if it wasn't on the same level of consciousness as your other kids). And he's growing up in a grieving household.

As he's a little older now, and understands more about nursery friends' home lives etc, he's probably becoming more aware that someone important and fundamental is missing. I would explore grief support for him too.

Firstly, that BeSunny person is stirring on threads, please ignore them.

Secondly, I don’t have any advice that hasn’t already been offered up but I wanted to send some well wishes to you, what a tough time you have had. I sincerely hope you get the support you need. X

Not immediately helpful, but find a school nursery locally that has a good reputation for SEN. They will have to take him and will look into appropriate support. I’m sorry you’re going through all this.

My now 6 year old was a terrible biter at 2 1/2 and hit/lashed out at his brothers when they wouldn’t let him do whatever he wanted.
He had not seen any hitting/biting to copy so I think that’s a little unfair to suggest to the OP.
Toddlers have poor impulse control and can lash out, it’s only by showing them how to manage their big emotions that they stop.
It was a shock for me because none of my others had been like it, however the youngest grew out of it by the time he was 4, and is now a happy and kind little boy.

OP, you and your DC have all my sympathy. My father died recently after a long cancer battle and one thing he said to us when we visited him in hospital was that he was glad that he was older and not at the young child stage anymore. There were parents with young children in the same unit as him and it was just so incredibly shitty and awful to think about what was going to happen.

In terms of practical advice, I'm not an expert and although my kids can be a bit challenging sometimes (potential ADHD, not diagnosed yet), it sounds like you're having a much tougher time than most of us right now. So probably my advice will be of limited value but here goes anyway. When family life with kids is really tough, do everything you can to reduce stress and encourage connection. Don't worry about bringing your A-game to parenting and don't be ashamed and 'over-parent' your kids in response when people judge you. Yes, try your best and step in when their behaviour is unacceptable, but give them a big hug afterwards. It's probably a case of 'can't cope' a lot of the time, rather than deliberate naughtiness. Focus on the trips out that work rather than what you think you ought to be doing. Stay home and put the TV on sometimes to give you time to recharge. Do picnic meals on a blanket in the living-room to reduce effort for you. If it gets too much mid-afternoon, pop them all in the bath with some toys to kill some time.

How much sugar does he have daily? Could it be a sugar spike related?

have you tried forest school or just lots and lots time outdoors, nature helps to regulate

Jesus.

Did you think that through before you typed it?

This sounds trauma-related to me. I would recommend the book The A-Z of Therapeutic Parenting by Sarah Naish. Sarah also has an online community you can join for free. In terms of managing the anger, violence and aggression, you could check out NVR (non-violent resistance). Winston’s Wish is a brilliant charity working in the field of child bereavement.

@BeSunnyLemonSheep the old adage ‘if you’ve got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all’ applies to you. Think before you engage… this widowed parent with very little support is at the end of their tether. Have some empathy.

Sorry if I missed it, but did you say if he was hurting the other child in anger or was he laughing/smiling as if he was ‘playing’? Any sensory issues you think he might have?

My 4 yo DS has autism but he is significantly taller than- about the height of a 7 year old. We’ve had problems over the years in public where he looks like a ‘naughty’ older child when actually he’s a younger child with SEN. My son does it significantly less now, but for a long time I would have to be on him like a hawk at playgrounds etc as he would push other kids when dysregulated. Soft play is my idea of hell as really hard to stay so close to him and it’s very dysregulating.

Not to say that your child has SEN as it may well be to do with the bereavement. But based on the incident you described that could easily have been a post about my son.

you sound like a great dad. Hang in there

I have a child who attacks others unpredictably, he is older and has autism and adhd diagnosis (it was always obvious with him so not suggesting these are your childs needs) and it is clearer now that he is older that he is highly anxious around other children and cant control his impulses he also finds it hard to cope with lots of demands on him. When he was little things that worked for us - keeping him at arms reach at all times in public and not taking him to high risk places when I didn't have the energy for that. Calling around nurseries until I found one that was very positive and comfortable with his needs, I asked to talk to the SEN leads until I got a good feeling. Going to local SEN groups/charities to get support from their staff and other parents. They will usually be able to advise of services that can support you. Pre schools attached to schools may have more options and knowledge to support him with grieving. It gets better and you sound like a lovely caring parent.

OP - this is desperately sad for you all, and you sound like you’re doing a great job.

My son was similar at that age - usually if he perceived someone to be in his personal space (even if they were just running past) or they were using the play equipment that he wanted to.

For a long time, we took him either to SEN sessions, or to quieter periods where there’s likely fewer people. Earlier trips to the park, the play centre the minute it opened, ear defenders on for public busy outings, etc.

Over time, and by doing that, he’s learned the social skills kids need to be able to cope in play environments. He’s 9 now, still very much autistic, but wouldn’t even consider lashing out at a child now.

You’ll get there, you’re doing a great job under very difficult circumstances. Don’t beat yourself up.

I'm an EYFS practitioner. I'm really sorry you're going through this. Explosive three year olds aren't as uncommon as you would think. I've worked with lots of children who explode at the slightest trigger. It's usually a lack of impulse control and emotional regulation abilities.

I would recommend the book The Explosive Child [Sixth Edition] by Ross W. Greene PHD. It's a research based guide "to understanding and parenting challenging children who frequently exhibit severe fits of temper, from a distinguished clinician and pioneer in the field."

I hope things improve for you

There are a few responses that could be made to this post but I quite like being on MN and don’t want to get banned.

As an aside, I’ve got a 9 year old the size of a 14 year old - and obviously your son and OPs are similarly larger than their years.

God knows what it is making our ND kids gigantic, but it’s definitely not helpful for public empathy or understanding!

It sounds like you are on the pathway to getting the child assessed / getting some support in place.

But in the meantime that other parent was right, you should not have taken a child like him to soft play. You knew from the nursery that he is violent so this wasn't a one off and by taking him to the soft play you actively chose to put other children in danger.