Child not invited to parties because “I don’t talk to parents”

[Ladyoftheapple]

My daughter is 8, she has three close friends in school, two of which are boys. One of these boys has had birthday parties and invited the close knit friends but my daughter has been excluded.

Today, my daughter has come home and said her best friend has said she is going to another boy in the class’s party. My daughter has said she hasn’t been invited but her best friend has then said to her that she hasn’t been invited because “her Mummy doesn’t talk to their parents”. She also said she spoke to her other best boy friend and he said the reason that she wasn’t invited was because his parents chose who came.

To be honest, I am a drop and run kind of parent and so is my Husband. I am terrible at small talk and I don’t want to be stood at the school gates gossiping. Is this on me? I feel it’s really unfair on my daughter that she is being excluded from her best friends parties because of her parents opinions of me 😳

Yes "gossiping" is clearly sexist, but anyone who hasn't been an outsider for whatever reason and experienced cliqueyness, hostility etc is super lucky. It definitely does happen, even adults can bully and exclude, people can be lazy and only want to speak with others "like them" etc. I absolutely know the value of making friends with your kid's friend's parents and I try really hard at it even though putting myself out there socially does not come naturally to me. My husband is much shyer and more awkward than me and if people aren't immediately friendly he will probably clam up.

I think a lot of people project previous experiences of being excluded onto situations as a way of protecting themselves from further harm. We are all misunderstanding each other all the time. That person isn't "aloof" "stuck up" "cool" etc- they are just shy. Those people aren't "gossiping" "cliquey" etc, they are just mates. I'm sure when I was involved in school life with my eldest I looked "cliquey"- my best mate was also at drop off and I was always bloody pleased to see her!

What’s with all the derogatory comments about gossiping and lack of small talk? There’s a child being excluded from a very good friend’s party at the heart of all this. By the age of eight, my child was certainly choosing which friends he wanted to come to their party and we wouldn’t have had it any other way. Up till then, we invited the entire class. I certainly wouldn’t have excluded someone on the basis that I didn’t know or like their parents. What a shitty, small minded thing to have done.

The only small piece of advice I would offer in relation to your thread is not to reveal any thing that could potentially look like a weak spot because there are umpteen posters here who will go for it, completely ignoring the bigger picture.

Don't you have a group WhatsApp group? Every day there's a 'Is x's mum on here' post.

I've simply asked someone else I know for a mum's number for a playdate or party invite when there's a new kid my DC has become friendly with or wants to invite to a party who she's never invited before.

How ironic the majority of people are telling the OP to step out of her comfort zone in talking to people when they all seem to be sticking only with the kids of the parents they know and not stepping one inch of their comfort zones.

Really glad I did ask for a mum's number on one particular occasion - turns out she didn't speak great English and had a young baby, so found it difficult to make school gate connections.

Yes sorry it's a bit on you. When your children are young you make a small effort to ease their social circle. It has nothing to do with gossiping, it's being polite and friendly to the parents of your child's friends, creating connections that might be nothing at all, or might last a few weeks, or a lifetime. These are people whose company and conversation you actively avoid (and appear to heavily judge), it's not that surprising that they might be reticent about extending invitations, these things work both ways and largely you get back more than you give. Small talk is indeed a skill that can be learnt, and a very valuable one, both for yourself, and to model to your child. I would hope by next year the children would drive the invite list rather than the parents, but for now, yes this is rather a reap what you have sown situation.

This seems odd at that age, when parties are drop and run anyway. Are you on the class WhatsApp? It is easier to communicate with parents you’ve at least spoken to once, so you know who you’re messaging.

I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned, but I think it’s obvious what happened. Parties are organised by text/ WhatsApp these days. The parents don’t know you or have your number so your kid doesn’t get invited.

I also wonder if you have ever thrown a party and invited their kids.

At 8 we'd gone through "whole class" and "all the boys/ girls" and were moving towards a smaller cluster of child's actual friends.

My two both tended to favour children whose parents weren't at the school gates every day so I didn't know them very well.

I didn't get in with the big parent friendship groups because my DCs went to nursery for childcare not the school one. When my youngest went up, I was split between different Key Stage doors and gates. I got on with parents from both classes in a "hi, how you doing?" kind of way, but not actual friendships.

To be policing 8yo's invitations by parent's friendships over the child's friendships is shitty and that's where "clique" becomes a relevant description.

Absolutely. Fake it till you make it. I hate small talk and talking on the phone, but have to do both a lot for work. I pretend to be someone who is good at it. I also used to pretend that I was a calm parent on hard days.

I think you are overestimating the level of friendship she has with the boys. 8 is peak age for gender separated parties and it's very unusual for a girl to be included in an all boys party (and vice versa). The mum organising it probably felt it was a bit odd to have just one girl at a boisterous boys event and combined with the fact she doesn't know anything about you, decided to leave her out.

Are you positive she chose to be best friends with the boys or is it a case of not being able to find female friends? The typical classroom dynamic at that age is that girls form into pairs which often expands into quadruples. So there are always 2-4 girls involved in a friendship circle. Boys tend to be more inclusive so they may just have one close friend and then simply socialise with whoever is there, similar to nursery. Girls who get left out end up playing with the boys, which can give the impression her best friends are male but this is usually purely by circumstance.

The bluntest way to put this is that the mum organising the party probably assumed your daughter was an "outsider" girl, and not a genuine close friend of her son. If her son really insisted on having her there then she obviously would have invited her. Also assuming that none of you had play dates that involved staying to chat or any sort of socialising at mutual friends parties. So all that makes it quite awkward to add a girl to a party full of boys.

Parents encourage the friendships that come with easy to deal with parents. If you’re seen as arrogant and judgy then parents will encourage other friendships. Children get excluded all the time because of the parents. I’d make some attempt to be friendly towards your daughters friends parents at a minimum. Poor kid.

I invite children to parties based on who my DC wants to invite. I just need to have the parents' contact details. Do the parents have your contact details? We're all in the class whatsapp group, but otherwise it would be a complete pain to try to catch a particular parent after school on a day when we're both picking up at the same time. I've done it once to hand over an invitation when the parent wasn't on the group, took me three days to get hold of them and I resented it a bit. But my child really liked their child and it wasn't the child's fault the parents weren't very contactable.

For less formal events like playdates and meet-ups, I'm afraid that does come down a bit more to whether I like and get on with the parents. We're an untidy, disorganised lot and quite laissez-faire in the holidays, so I'm more likely to invite the children of friends who I don't have to tidy up for or meet up with parents I can message and say 'we're hanging out at the park this afternoon if you'd like to join. Probably there from around 3' and it won't bother them if we're a bit later than we said.

That’s unusual at 9 … I get it in reception but by 9 they should understand you don’t get invited to everything.

Not to defend anyone excluding your child, but people are acting in what they perceive to be in the best interests of their own child. You don't need to get in with in crowd of mums (I absolutely never was), but it very much helps to get your child a reputation as a reliable turner-upper who is not a PITA to be around. I think my child was invited a lot because we never, ever flaked (see multiple threads about kids being really disappointed about low numbers of attendees). Start by hosting playdates and a party of your own. It doesn't need to be expensive or even a birthday party - you can just invite a handful of kids round for tea one afternoon. If you work, host at the weekend or whenever else you're off.

I’m an immigrant to UK for marriage and I find nearly everything about British schools to be shocking, odd, petty, in many cases cruel to outright abusive. From parents to teachers to the administration. I could write a lengthy essay on why we are boycotting the British school system all together and will be homeschooling. This ridiculous school gates nonsense being one of them. Never in my life have I heard of parents waiting like a gaggle of gossiping peasants at a gate as a daily routine until moving here. And that’s the most minor of my concerns and criticisms with British schools.

I find this so weird, but then I’m only 2 years into school gate politics. For my son’s birthday (about to turn 6) I ask him who he wants to invite, whether I know the parents or not. I don’t dictate his friendships based on who I want to spend time with, that seems so selfish

There were parents who obviously weren’t interested in making proper friends but they were always friendly saying hi, how are you, etc. I was very chatty etc as I knew it’d be good for DC and good for me to make my own friends (which I did).

However, It shouldn’t make a difference to party invites though as the child should decide, although I used to check my DC’s lists incase they left anyone out by accident and I once refused to have a girl who had never reciprocated an invite by year 6 although came to all of DD’s up to that point (she def had parties herself).

You have my sympathy OP, it's a bit rubbish for our children when this happens. DD1's best friends mum has never liked me, I'm not quite sure why, I have lots of mum friends to chat to so don't always get to chat to her, but say hi to her most mornings and invite her daughter round quite often and chat to her when she collects her. However my daughter is never invited to her birthdays and has told my daughter that her mum doesnt like me or DD1 and thats why. DH is friendly with her Dad and they go to pub together etc.

It's rubbish, I have tried making effort but we don't really click. It's a shame that even at 10 that this drives party invites, but I realise I can't change it. I have lots of mum friends at school so I dont think it's because I am very unfriendly. And DD is well behaved, high achieving all rounder type. So I just organise a playdate for the girls afterwards as that's in my control, maybe do this?

Your behaviour must be quite noticeable standoffish for parents to be commenting to children about it. And tbh that comes across a little bit in your OP: the fact that you equate small talk with “gossiping” etc comes across as judgmental and a bit misogynistic.

If you’re busy or withdrawn and not good at small talk that’s fine but you do have to oil the wheels a bit. If the parents perceive you to be cold and arrogant then this will have ramifications for your children.

@StrangewaysHereWeComethat’s a good point too re flaking - we were also reliable - I hated when people didn’t turn up and not have a good excuse like illness (obviously that happens with kids).

As long as you werent actually rude, Im suprised the parents did this. 8 year old is old enough to let the kids choose who they want.

Honestly, it doesn't happen everywhere. It's vastly over-represented on MN.

It’s ridiculous. The kids are 8, parents wouldn’t stay at a party at 8 years old surely? I don’t chat to the other mums either, but I arrive about 1 minute before the kids come out anyway. Surely it’s the kids that decide who they want at a party.

@Applewispschools aren’t perfect, there’s massive underfunding and parents don’t back teachers up anymore. However, many teachers do their absolute best in a shitty situation.

As for ‘gossiping’ - I used to love standing at the gates catching up w the parents at pick up (I used to drive to pick up as kids were tired at end of day and parking was crap so most people arrived early kids often asked for an impromptu play date too), or at drop off I’d see parents w their kids en route and we’d chat - made the mile walk much more fun!

On my work days I used breakfast or after school club which was a different vibe entirely!

pS: I’m not a cool girl by any stretch of the imagination if that’s what you’re thinking!

Even if you didn't go do of/pick ups because of after school club and work, the other parents shouldn't be strangers to you by this stage.

You'll have had nativities, sports days, welcome meetings etc, and then probably a class WhatsApp. You don't need to throw yourself in, be part of the PTA and host an end of year BBQ for someone, but if you are part of the school/class community more, then so will your children. You'll be more likely to be remembered when someone is going to the park and wondering who fancies joining them.

Haven’t RTFT, but OP, you must realise, you cannot not communicate. We ‘leak’ our feelings and attitudes all the time.
As others have noted, your use of the word ‘gossiping’ (always pejorative when used about other people) reveals quite a bit. It’s entirely possible that you may be unconsciously leaking an attitude of contempt, and that’s so corrosive to connection. It’s kind of the way the world works that the parents’ feelings about you would have a bearing on how much your child is invited to stuff.

You don’t need to be buddies with any of the school mums, and even if you have a demanding job, you can always pass the time of day with them and try to remember stuff they mention (new job, house move etc) and make a point of being smiley and warm. Oils the wheels of social contact 🤷🏼‍♀️