DH’s sudden obsession with FIRE

[Firewife2]

FIRE is a sort of financial movement where you aggressively save/invest to be able to retire early /be financially free. DH is only 34 but discovered FIRE two years ago and is now utterly obsessed with it and investing aggressively. I don’t think being future aware it a bad thing, but it’s borderline obsession and I feel like he’s forgot to also live in the moment. Without being morbid, he might not even make it.

He earns a reasonable salary (takes home c.3K a month) and now allocates at least a third of this to saving/investing, so there is little room after bills for luxuries such as meals out etc.

I know it’s his choice, that’s obvious, but I am interested in what others think and it my viewpoint is unreasonable at all.

@Firewife2 what he's doing is fine in itself but he's part of a family and this really has to be agreed between you or it will likely cause huge friction.

This was disappointing, I thought the thread was going to be about a potential pyromaniac.

It sounds like the issue is that you are not aligned on your vision of what your future looks like.

Are you both of a similar age? What will retirement look like and when will it happen? It can be tough if one still works when the other doesn’t.

I think you need a frank conversation.

You are correct on both points. £46k is higher than the average salary, which people often incorrectly think means it must therefore be a good salary. The two are not the same. The buying power of £46k these days is low. All it means is wages haven’t kept up with inflation.
In terms of FIRE if you were on that salary in your twenties and single, then you would have a chance of achieving the goal.

I know people who are incredibly frugal and will have millions in the bank when they die, and people who will be working until they drop because they spend irresponsibly. Somewhere between would be ideal!
I’d say DH and I are FIRE-light. We have a much smaller and cheaper house than what we can afford, smaller and cheaper cars, don’t wear expensive clothes, look for bargains on holidays etc. But I personally don’t feel we are missing out because we take a lot of holidays and we eat out a lot. We will have our mortgage paid off early and be able to retire early. Obviously this depends on what you earn, many people aren’t in a position to save anything. But we can so we do.

The issue with FIRE are housing costs. We should assume that a couple this young have horrendous housing costs unless very lucky to have been given a huge deposit or assisted financially. For my generation it was far more achievable.

The eternal debate of what is modest or not on here is always a good time to post the IFS where do I fit in calculator, not perfect but a good indicator. Someone recently posted thinking they were on a modest income. I knew immediately her income put her in at least top 5% income wise, it was actually top 2%. I used to work within I the world of social policy so still interested.

ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

The OP said it’s a reasonable salary. To then turn around and say ‘it’s very modest’ is rude. And not factual.
At 34 there’s the possibility to earn much more in the future. And it all depends on where you live and your expenses. He is managing to save £1k a month.

I think it’s reasonable anywhere but this forum, which is awash with 6 figure earners (who mysteriously have endless time during the working day to post on here!)

FIRE usually requires an aggressive savings rate, often 50% to 70% of income. He's not building a mega-fortune. It's a lot, but it's not "retire at 40 and buy a yacht" money. Or he's planning for Coast FIRE: Instead of him retiring completely, he uses financial independence to take a lower-paying, lower-stress job.

If your DH is pushing for extreme frugality and cutting out all "extras" while you want to enjoy yourself more now rather than later, every single purchase will become a trial (or you will just buy things from your own money, because you'll be tired of always arguing with him).

I think that your DC might become the biggest potential for conflict here. He might see sports camps, private lessons, or new fashionable clothes for teens as "lifestyle creep" that delays his retirement date, which would be unfair on your DC.

Also, how does he imagine his early retirement? Is it him being home all day pursuing hobbies while you are still working? Did you speak about it? You really should, and soon. Make sure you're not subsidizing his savings by picking up the slack for any random, unexpected costs.

I would actually be more worried about your later years, rather than now. If you spend your "fun money" now while he hoards his, then you are actively building a future where he is a wealthy retiree and you are his working-class roommate. Should you ever need access to "his" money, he will resent it, because he had to make sacrifices to save while you did not. So you must agree on what a comfortable, normal retirement looks like for both of you at age 57 or 60. You should both contribute proportionally to ensure that both reach that baseline safely. Otherwise, it won't work out for you.

@Firewife2I am one of them 🙈 Still I don’t save close to £1k a month so I’m impressed. And still I wouldn’t say a close to £50k salary is modest, especially if not in London

That sounds pretty dreary for your child. You being able to travel when you're in your 50s won't be much benefit to them if they've missed out on day trips and activities and have only seen their parents in relaxation mode for one holiday a year.

My take home pay topped out at £2100 a month. I was mortgage free with a good pension pot in my early 40s and FIREd at 50. The latter was brought forward from the planned 55-60 by some inheritance, but the former was mainly from saving and planning. So £3k monthly take home does give room for a good savings percentage.

We spend mindfully, but don't deprive ourselves. Four star hotels not 5, lunch out instead of dinner - not big sacrifices. FIRE doesn't have to be huddling round a candle to keep warm and eating dry bread and water.

And I certainly have no intention of just 'shuffling round the house' for the next 30 years. My dad retired at 55, wrote a book and travelled the world. My mum's pushing 80 and has a social calender bursting at the seams plus hefty involvement in a local conservation project. It's not all slippers and daytime TV.

You don't get the years back with your children. A good retirement is a matter of luck, because it's based on health and sometimes the care needs of close relatives. My retirement has been filled by my GC and I'm enjoying it. In two years, I won't be regularly needed and I'm lucky to live by a riding charity and hope to keep myself healthy enough to volunteer with the horses, I'll be early 60s. If I could get another job, I probably would. A neighbour volunteers with the dogs trust, she spends a few of her mornings, walking dogs. I wish I'd done certain holidays in my 20/30s because I now haven't got the energy levels. I've encouraged my DDs to travel over excessive saving, in their 20/30s, but we live on Merseyside and life is cheaper. As a child of an immigrant, we drove all over the UK and I'm glad I had that experience. I think people on here are too unnecessarily frugal and it's why there's a lot of bitterness and benefit/social housing envy. As said you need to talk out his long term plans, because it should be for the whole family and be in agreement. Teenagers are expensive (so are grandchildren!) young adults are still needing support, so he needs to figure that in. Without a plan, need to get up early, people age faster. I'd rather aim for a less stressful, part time job.

We are in Australia and we sent our kids to a low fee private school (ie around $7,000pa). By that stage our investments were compounding and the dividends were enough to pay the school fees each year.

I am the first one to admit we didn’t have any hardships such as illness, job loss, disabled kids etc to stop the FIRE process. My DH was earning around $100k (AUD) at the time so a decent wage, I was earning less than that as was part time.

It may be a little harsh to call me “not the sharpest tool in the shed”. I am a CA and worked for a big 4 accounting firm for many years. I also spent a lot of time researching the investments to make and then managing said investments. After around 10 years of consistent investing, the returns were getting bigger and now we have stopped investing and enjoying the fruits of our labour. As the saying goes, “those who understand compound interest receive it, those who don’t, pay it”.

Obviously Fire wasn't a thing when I was small <awaits jokes about rubbing two sticks together> but df was a huge saver due to being brought up in complete poverty.

The list of things that we wouldn't even ask for was huge: ice creams, meals out, going anywhere with paid entry, clothes that were new/with a label, anything other than our very cheap local holiday, heating kept to a minimum (November to Feb only) really most things that weren't necessary.
Most winters he got a bill that put us into "economy drive", lights only on if strictly necessary, for example.
Was it a happy childhood? Yes.
Do I follow it? No, but 'd say my siblings (who moaned about it far more at the time) pretty much do.
And now he's retired (as is dm - she retired before him) they've had a nice time spending it on themselves and us.

Or sFety obsessed or on a CB radio tracking the fire service

@whiteblossoms but the point is that you didn't feel deprived because you were left with a higher than average wage, back then, that is still, now, a higher than average wage. You had your wage spare to invest. Those that have more than enough money to live on, get to take advantage of compound interest, is a saying, applicable to your situation.

@MargaretThursday your DNs have never been to a theme park, zoo, cinema etc, or had a ice cream in the park? Why support deliberately putting your children into relative poverty?

I see all these FIRE posts on social media and think it sounds tedious as shit. Life is for living. I only have a 50% chance of living to 55 anyway. Even if I didn’t, I don’t see the point of spending your whole life stressing about retirement.

(a) I enjoy work. I don’t want to just leave work several decades early, to do what? Travel? Garden? I live my life so I like the work I do, I do lots of travel, I garden, I have hobbies. I’m doing that now in my 40s because life is too short not to enjoy it.

(b) I don’t want to live like a pauper in my best years. For one, I may not see my later years. But I don’t see the point of not having nice things now especially when my dc are young. How sad to miss out on holidays with them and being able to sign them up for activities and school trips and to afford a nice house just so I can buy a campervan at 55 and tour Southern Europe.

Yes, that’s correct, we were privileged to earn a good wage to enable us to invest, also lucky that house prices were much lower 20 years ago. I believe it is more difficult to achieve FIRE these days but kudos to the people still trying. If nothing else, they will have a buffer for unexpected life events and will enjoy a decent retirement, whatever age that may be.

His idea on the whole isn't a bad idea. We effectively live our life like this, we live a simple life and save a good proportion of our salary. It gives us flexibility and security that we can maintain our lifestyle without needing huge salaries.
Even when we had a house hold income of £25k through the 2010s whilst we were still in education we aimed to save 20-30% of our income. Once we completed our training and our household income more than doubled we kept a similar lifestyle that meant we were able to save aggressively and buy our first house with a 40% deposit. We went with a smaller house but one that perfectly met our needs as we were both in new jobs and we wanted to be able to still manage if one of them didn't work out. Luckily they did but by only making modest changes to our lifestyle and with abysmal interest rates for savings we made the decision to overpay our mortgage as much as possible and in 4 years we had more than halved our mortgage.
We decided to relocate to somewhere less suburban, bigger and detached, we now had a child in nursery and less disposable income but we reaped the rewards of frugality when we had fewer financial commitments meant that we could make that move without putting ourselves into a difficult position financially. The cost of living started to spiral about 6 months after we moved and I have since been made redundant whilst pregnant with our second. I'm now looking at a 2-3 year career break as I developed complications in the pregnancy which now mean I'm well enough to work at the moment.
My partners take home pay is ~£3500-4000 and our living costs are £2000-2500 a month. I did get maternity allowance of ~£700 but that's finished now. We still have a lot of savings from our younger frugal years and in the last 6 months been lucky and unfortunate to receive inheritance. This means we now have long term financial security.
The difference to your situation is we are both doing it on the same page, we first look at outgoings, we build in flexibility for spontaneous nice things. We set aside time to ensure our money is working well for us and that we have the right balance of enjoying life whilst securing a future where life's twists and turns don't add to the pressure. When I go back to work it's comforting that I don't have to be looking at a FT high paying role. Something 3-4 days a week that fulfills me and allows me to be present with the children and my parents/inlaws as they start to get older would be good. My partners works a job with poor long term security and high stress. He doesn't want to be doing that full time at 65. We also look at health too. My sibling had heart attack in their early 40s, my dad had a stroke in his early 50s, my FIL between 60 and 65 has had two different cancers - one stage 3, the other stage 4. My mum fell down the stairs and fractured her back in two places at 65. We want work flexibility as we enter the corridor of uncertainty from 55 -75.

One memory that has really stuck with me was one from my form tutor. There was announcement about 2 schools merging. The plan was for the schools to merge then a new school for be built on the site of the closed school. It would take 3-4 years before the new school would be formally opened. My form tutor said it wouldn't matter to him as he was retiring in 3 years. He didn't, 3 months later he went on long term sick leave and within in the year he had passed away. Life is fragile, don't save all your good times for tomorrow embrace life today, just don't embrace life so much that you will spend your tomorrows worrying about life.

I don’t see the point of spending your whole life stressing about retirement.

I've never stressed about retirement, but I did plan for it. Whereas I know many people in their 50s and 60s who haven't planned and are now very stressed indeed.

At his age his primary focus in terms of finances should be squarely directed towards going up the career ladder and increasing his earnings. Does he @Firewife2 ?

Great to have a pension so he can retire at 60 , just make sure he shares it with you and you can retire as well
unlike our situation ….
my DH retired at 61, telling me he has a great pension-he still pays the bills with it tbf
but I’ve only worked part time, term time in low paid early years jobs as we have 3 DC
so my pension is rubbish!
will have to work til age 67….only another 10 years