AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

I agree and support dress codes to a degree. These can be enforced and policed calmly and professionally.

to what “degree” at school?

and how “enforced and policed”?

or do you post like a politician…. In vague but strong assertions

Yes - her pov (which is different from my AIBU pov) is that’s a non issue in that particular school and some of the leadership team should tell the members of the public that email persistently that it’s not something the school generally has a problem with, that there is more to worry about and they should mind their own.

On balance no I’m not going to email. In spite of some weird imaginings on here about me, I’m actually very supportive of the school generally and while I PERSONALLY take exception to how the email was worded, I also think on reflection and on this occasion there’s more to worry about. Not least the wild projections on here about young girls/ women and the language used to describe them, if it’s in any way reflective of wider society.

I think she agreed with the rules being there, just you shouldn't say it in a bad way or something? Even though none of us are saying anything and we are just online on a forum

non issue in that particular school and some of the leadership team should tell the members of the public that email persistently that it’s not something the school generally has a problem with, that there is more to worry about and they should mind their own.

Your teacher friend thinks it’s a non issue in that particular school. Is she a teacher there?

Reasonable people can disagree about what clothing is appropriate for children, but blaming a child for others' misconduct shouldn't be considered fair. The language we use to describe these children should also be considered. We shouldn't try to shame of confuse. A short skirt may influence how some people react, just as many aspects of appearance can influence reactions,but if someone gives a school-age girl unwanted sexual attention, that behavior is the responsibility of the person giving the attention, not the girl wearing the skirt.

It's like pulling teeth. Are you a teacher?

I gave you a pp's example of a message to parents? Please reread.

Policed in the same way as any rule break. Warnings etc? Just you know be proportionate and leave out any vague to protect the uncomfy males crap. Know the kids name, know their progress, know their ability not just the length of their skirt. Some teachers need reminding what their actual job is.

'I think she agreed with the rules being there, just you shouldn't say it in a bad way or something'

It took you long enough. Yes, without the tramps/whores/sweaty arse cheeks tone. And if it's said widely on here then clearly it represents opinion with parents and teachers generally, depressingly. It isn't ok.

Yes. I think most people could infer they are from the fact that that I’ve said that teacher was able to say it’s a non issue at that school - the school in question - and all else I said to report that conversation.

I’ve done you the courtesy of replying to a number of your direct questions on this thread but your repeated challenging is coming across as badgering now and is quite exhausting.

I have no issues with those words being said. To me they are accurate. And I have no regrets.

Uncomfortable males. It's only natural people feel comfortable when around barely dressed people (men or women) in a professional work environment. What would you expect a 17 year old to do if his female classmates are flashing their underwear? Just feel right as rain that's he's around inappropriately dressed peers? That if he looks at them, they'll accuse him of being a creep (which he isn't)

Think about an a level maths class.

It's not just males either. Plenty of women (including me) have said it makes them uncomfortable too. I really dont want to be seeing underwear or backsides either

Mumsnetting really shouldn’t “exhaust” anyone, so sorry about that!

it’s a tiny minority but they do have a small number of persistent emailers to the school complaining about girls in short skirts so have to act.

I just got the interesting from this your teacher friend was saying not challenge because the school had to act. What else could they do? Or is your point- word it differently?

Thankfully though (or perhaps you were disappointed?) your daughter were strict conformists to the uniform code so you never actually had to see your daughters wearing some of the length skirts many of us have. Your area of the UK escaping this entirely it would seem.

“Not a good idea” you describe as some kind of vague male warning @Gloriia

but that seems sensible to me.

If these girls were doing this and the world was only populated by women - it wouldn’t need to include this sentence but rather the focus would be more on ….. it’s not in accordance with uniform and inappropriate.

It obviously alludes to the “men” issue because it is an issue.

I know it's a very long thread now and I don't expect pps to have the time to trawl through, but I just wanted to make 2 points:

Things moved on from OP's question to the issue of teenage girls wearing the very revealing skirts which are designed to expose their bottoms. Bad enough with tights, but I have seen some girls wearing these with bare legs and very little in the way of underwear. It's these garments which a lot of pps find concerning...to put it mildly.

I'm not, and I don't think generally pps are, talking about just short skirts on teenage girls. That's different and pretty mainstream and as far as I'm concerned, a reasonable choice.

And a pp who objects very strongly to pps criticising the extreme look has admitted she hasn't even seen it herself. I think she believes we are condemning ordinary short skirts, which we're not.

Yes, that's true - but the main issue is the teenager choosing to dress in a way that she knows is socially unacceptable, and which forces people to have to see her private areas whether they want to or not.

If that same teenager was to stand there in the full classroom picking bogeys out of her nose and wiping them on the carpet, I highly doubt that it would give anybody any remotely sexual responses - but that still wouldn't mean that she shouldn't be expected to behave in a socially-appropriate way that respects others and doesn't force them to witness something unpleasant.

This with bells on.

'If that same teenager was to stand there in the full classroom picking bogeys out of her nose and wiping them on the carpet'

Just when you think it couldn't get any worse with bizarre analogies and demonising schoolkids!

I can’t believe how…. Well absolutely impassioned you are on this thread @Gloriia

and yet in RL you were bitterly disappointed with all but the odd schools teacher throughout your children’s education and did… well noting other than “eye rolled”

A lion on mumsnet. A mouse in RL perhaps.

Thankfully you got lucky with uniform abiding daughters so never had to test whether your passion for the issue on this thread translates to RL

'Things moved on from OP's question to the issue of teenage girls wearing the very revealing skirts which are designed to expose their bottoms'

At least the penny does seem to have slowly dropped as we've moved on from 'sweaty arse cheeks' to 'bottoms' so a bit of progress I suppose.

Now if we can just stop blaming and shaming schoolkids regarding other's 'uncomfy feelings' that will be even better.

A better example in your case is if the teen had a tattoo perhaps. You’d call it ugly and cheap

Our dc excelled I didn't have anything to bollock them about? I was alway very polite at parent's sessions as you'd expect.

Obviously when faced with issues irl that need sorting I am <checks notes> a 'lion' or polite, assertive and don't suffer fools would be a better description

Oh I bet you were relieved…. Children that excelled at school and strict uniform followers throughout their time at school!

Were you also a strict uniform conformist at school like your kids @Gloriia ?

I don't think schoolkids are allowed tats are they?

If yours have them and rules are they must be covered I'm sure you get them to comply? If not I certainly would not say to have them on show makes them look like tramps/whores/sex offenders/baboons. Would you?

Misogynistic langauge is not ok