AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

@Gloriia what a shame you were so disappointed with all your kids schools but despite being so disappointed year after year after year you never moved them? Or just moved them to another unsatisfactory school.

or even considered home schooling. I am sure that would have been a relief to all

I know that students who adopt the most extreme form of this fashion are in the minority. But I have seen it with my own eyes - so I'm not one of the pps saying 'Oh, teenage girls have always rolled up their skirts!'

I apologise to those, like Gloriia, who are offended by, er, direct language, but I can't help looking at it in an anthropological...or even zoological context.

Yes, pubescent or nubile young female animals may feel the urge to display their sexual organs - or at least, their erogenous zones, in this case their buttocks. It's nature! Chimps, baboons, all kinds of primates do it.

But we aren't gorillas living in the Rwandan rainforest - we live in a complex developed society with ideas about feminism and sexual politics which sometimes fly in the face to natural urges. So sorry, girls - you need to take that on board. And that's where parenting comes in - sensible parents will help them understand the context of 21st century European society, not just let them make themselves look ridiculous...at best.

I suggested it because I used to work in a supermarket, where I'd see a LOT of people bending over self service tills and also walking away to leave the shop. Quite of a lot of much more mature women used to flash all sorts of things when bending and some outfits could be quite startling in back view that looked perfectly all right from the front. Seeing yourself properly (ie, without having to perform some kind of contortions) from the back can be educational...

No as I said the odd one stood out and were competent it was just the exception rather that the norm sadly.

Stop policing lunch boxes and clothes and teach would be my advice.

Our were all very bright so did very well regardless of the obsession with tights, socks, shoe style etc.

Yes you'd get the odd one who really stood out as competent and on the ball and could discuss course content etc

the odd one at all your kids schools was competent

the rest you were very disappointed in, year after year, both primary and secondary. And yet… you kept them there. Seems bizarre to be so up in arms about this threads and yet so… chilled about fact that you aren’t happy for the duration of your kids education

I'm not complaining now, and I didn't then rather sighed and eye rolled to myself <not to the dc obviously, I encouraged respect much as it was challenging at times>.

Ours did really well but the freqent whiny emails and memos about clothes and lunchboxes were so very tedious. Face to face meetings often had flustered teachers unable to tell you the basics but could probably recite chapter and verse about lunch content or skirt length rule breaking.

Priorities seem a bit fucked in some schools, that is all.

They can do both. People can do multiple things. If a student is dressing scruffily, a teacher can tell them to tuck their shirt in. And don't dress inappropriately for school.

I have a very bright DC as well. Grammar school educated top top unis for UG and masters. They all dressed appropriately for school and didn't show off pants on purpose (given some things are private and I raised them correctly)

Ours didn't show their pants and wore the correct coloured socks and shoes too. We adhered to all the rules I'm just not bothered when others don't and I don't think teachers should waste so much time on policing things like skirt length or trouser style. A dcs friend sent home as they had skinny trousers not 'classic'. It is just batshit.

Very well put. To be honest, it even looks ridiculous when actual gorillas, baboons and the others do it (I realise that's a me issue and it's their natural instinct) - and if there were such a thing as feminism and equality in the animal kingdom, that most definitely wouldn't be a good way of upholding it.

Comparing young girls to monkeys is 'very well put'?

Again, what do you not understand about inappropriate dressing? All our kids dressed appropriately, good. Those that don't, will be told off and punished. Good on the school for tackling it, do you not think micro skirts and incredibly inappropriate for school?

I'd say the same about the lads who do the gangsta thing, waddling along with their trouser waistbands underneath the bottom of their pants. Maybe from the front, they think it makes a bold, sexually-aggressive statement; but if they saw themselves as people walking behind see them, I wonder if they might think twice.

We once saw one such young lad walking like this and his trousers fell all the way down to his ankles. I mean, it's just the law of gravity, isn't it?! Oddly enough, he looked really embarrassed when that happened - even though he'd already deliberately done the major part of it himself!

It would seem you are the type of person to be very direct and forthright in your stringent opinions on mumsnet threads @Gloriia

but when it comes to Rl and your children’s education… you’re happy for all your children to attend both primary and secondary school with only the “odd” competent teacher, and the rest wholly incompetent not knowing your child or their progress apparently.

very strange priority there @Gloriia

Well what alternative explanation can you think of, why so many adolescent girls defiantly choose to act like this?

It's not done for comfort or practicality; and it's not for style, as it just looks ridiculous; and it most certainly isn't done as a blow for feminism. So why?

Let's take it to the extreme and a girl was wearing a bikini to school.....then again according to @Gloriia the teachers shouldn't say anything

What kind of sad bastard makes a complaint to a school about a school girl choosing to make a short skirt shorter?

Unless she is literally flashing her underwear / genitals to unsuspecting passersby what is there to lodge a formal complaint about?

Just because you think it looks ridiculous does not mean they do. You are mistaking your opinion for fact.

Why even bother with the bikini? How about completely in the nip?

Nobody should feel they have the right to tell her what she should (or shouldn't) wear; they can just look away if they don't want to see her; respecting other people isn't relevant; it isn't any kind of safeguarding issue; and it doesn't interfere with her studies, which is all that matters..........

There are constant double standards at play here, we wouldn't accept boys exposing themselves so why do we accept it from girls with the explanation that they can wear what they want without being judged.

The move towards leisure wear has meant its acceptable to wear skin tight shorts that show every part of your arse and pelvic area. If men started walking round in the equivalent with their cock and balls clearly outlined for everyone then there would be uproar. There is a basic level of common decency.

Yep 🤷.

The unofficial second uniform at my local secondary is an arse height rolled up pleated skirt (yes pp's you can absolutely roll up a pleated skirt - it forms a tutu shape which looks even more stupid than the normal skirts after rolling up) paired with knee socks.

The knee socks make the whole look even more ridiculous. The girls constantly tug their skirt down / hold it closed while walking. Its painful to watch, you can see the awkwardness shining through.

But they do. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes. School uniform with bare buttocks in front of me. As in no pants (but presumably a thong). It’s just really grim and grubby. I can’t imagine even the most rampant of adolescent boys finding this anything other than nauseating.

I wonder what kind of parenting is going on at home

Ours did really well but the freqent whiny emails and memos about clothes and lunchboxes were so very tedious. Face to face meetings often had flustered teachers unable to tell you the basics but could probably recite chapter and verse about lunch content or skirt length rule breaking.
Priorities seem a bit fucked in some schools, that is all.

@Gloriia

I agree that teachers shouldn't have to do some of the things they do, but that's the situation we are in. They have to tick so many boxes.

I was trained in the days before the National Curriculum and Ofsted and I spent most of my time planning and teaching and marking. I saw the job transformed beyond recognition in my time. It's not the choice of teachers to do box-ticking activities - they are forced to by policies from government or from the school management.

It's better all round if parents can just understand this and support the teachers by not making a fuss over trivialities.

Oh - and the advent of email has made teachers' lives much more difficult. the amount of time they must have to spend on that boggles the mind. Once, if you had an issue you had to go and find a pen, paper and stamp and sit down, compose your thoughts, go out and post it etc etc. Now any fool can just shoot off a rude email and the teacher has to answer it professionally and usually with lots of research and conferring with busy colleagues.

Let teachers teach! I think we can agree on that, Gloriia, but it takes parents to back off and let them do their job rather than challenging them over school rules which they haven't made but have to enforce. I understand that you yourself didn't necessarily do that all the time, but I'm talking generally.

No - read the thread. It's not about shorter skirts as most people understand them. It's a specific, very extreme fashion which, once you've seen, you won't forget.

Rolling up your kilt a bit isn't the issue.