AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

Yeah every school our dc have been to it's the same but apparently not everywhere and some posters have been subjected to 'sweaty arse cheeks' at every turn.

It isn't rocket science but we are talking about teachers here, either opaque tights like everywhere else or trousers then those walking upstairs can do so without been subjected to the horrors many describe in such fine detail. Repeatedly.

Some schools changed to kilts in the hope of stopping rolling up skirts it didn’t.
In my day when mini skirts were the height of fashion our school would measure the length of skirt and if it was wrong length you were sent home the view being rules are rules. No one went to the papers to complain like they do every September.
To be honest I see the rolled up skirts every day and believe me rightly or wrongly it is very unfair for the opposite sex to have to negotiate the provocativeness of some girls.
In this day and age I don’t know why schools don’t just adopt trousers for all and shorts in the summer. Problem solved.

A girl removed her skirt?! Like who in their right mind goes to school with the idea that they'll show off their underwear

@Gloriia count yourself lucky. its hard to believe if you haven’t seen it, but it is literally thong on display, including the boot third of the bum when standing up. not great.
I don’t mind when they wear boxer shorts underneath, but the thong or brazilian knicker is just too much

Although I know what you mean the school skirts are totally inappropriate.
Also a teacher. Their bum cheeks hang lower than their skirts. It’s then the job of their form tutor to make them correct this, so obviously could be a male or female having to explain it. Surely it would be better coming from their parents.
We have glass railings on the stairs and upstairs corridors. You can’t help but see everything.
It would be like your son declaring the new fashion was to put a massive slit in the crotch of their trousers and wear a thong underneath.
No one wants to see it!

I'm not sure I see the problem with the wording. It's up to the school to enforce the uniform rules and guidelines but surely it's up to the parents to have the talks to their kids about safety and dressing appropriately also. it's not about telling your kids they're asking to be attacked purely for how they dress it's about teaching your kids that in school they have to abide by their rules just like they'll be having rules and regulations when they leave school and get jobs

That it was inappropriate for anyone to be wearing skirts so short their knickers were on display That it wasn’t a one off, it was a regular occurrence i I said it wasn’t short skirts it was inappropriately short. It wouldn’t be accepted in the work place. It did not reflect well on the schools image. As a woman I don’t want to see teenagers underwear flashing at me. I have a daughter so I understand they like to dress a certain way but it’s our job as responsible adults to guide them on appropriate dressing I acknowledged women should be able to dress how they want but within reason, not when buttocks are being shown. I also made it clear if the boys were showing their underwear and bum cheeks I’d be having the same conversation - teenagers should not be showing off their pants or buttocks

And this school simple came back and said essentially no biggie… the girls behave well?

She was told to put it back on and taken away 'to be spoken to'.

I guess schools know they are already on very shaky ground wrt child protection and protecting themselves from accusations, in a situation which ends up with teachers being close to to defiant adolescents who are standing there half-dressed.

I don't know the girl in question, but I'm guessing that, if she is so brazen in that act, she's clearly marked herself out as entitled and/or a troublemaker. It screams "Go on, I dare you to challenge me" - so I'd say the likelihood of her potentially following it up with allegations or deliberate misrepresentations of the facts must already be much higher. The well-behaved kids would never dream of doing that in the first place.

I've never gone and challenged authority by taking off my clothes?!

I think the most ridiculous iteration of this fashion was when I saw a girl whose blazer was longer than her 'skirt' and from the back there was just the bottom of a blazer and then the bottom half of her bare buttocks.

Just ridiculous.

An awful lot of girls, judging by this thread and our collective experiences.

The social contract is simply shot to pieces when the basic common-sense assumption that of course you wouldn't want people to see your private body parts and underwear in public is suddenly far from universally accepted.

Not quite the same thing, but there was always a basic agreed understanding that, if you wanted things from a shop, you would pay for them; or if you were determined to steal them, you would at least be very careful and discreet about it, and frightened of the prospect of being caught and everybody finding out. Nowadays, there are lots of people who will shamelessly fill a massive bag in full clear view and just stride out with it - and, like the teachers, the store security guards just don't know what to do, as the basic social code has now just vanished.

Never, ever seen 'bare buttocks' <improvement on 'sweaty arse cheeks' well done> below a blazer. It would seem unbelievable really to have such anatomy.

If only teachers paid as much attention to the curriculum!

How do you know how much attention teachers pay to the curriculum?

Do you live in the real world?

Oh years and years of experience with teachers throughout primary and secondary. Yes you'd get the odd one who really stood out as competent and on the ball and could discuss course content etc but sadly too many were checking lunch boxes/colour of socks/length of skirt whilst unable to discuss a child's progress and next steps at parents evenings.

Why they can’t just say “it’s not the uniform policy you signed up to when joining this school” is beyond me.

Skirts up to your arse doesn’t look smart imo, and schools seem to want smart (although I’d have them in something more comfortable if in charge), but the reason not to do it is that it’s not policy. End of.

I do yes.

You can pay attention to the curriculum, teach well and also call out inappropriate behaviour and improper dress

But it doesn't have to be one or the other. And much as I hate pointless and unfair rules in school, it very often follows that children who refuse to follow simple common-sense, respectful rules about peripheral things will also be seriously 'challenging' when it comes to more central things.

Once they understand that rules are optional, and that nothing will happen to them immediately if they decide that they just aren't really a fan of obeying them, why should they bother listening to adults about anything? And the ones who usually end up suffering the most as a result are those children themselves, who (whether they realise or not with their not-yet-mature brains) are desperately in need of adult guidance.

Lots of rules are not fun, but they're there for everybody's benefit. If you ask children (or adults) if they enjoy doing exams, you'd struggle to find any who said Yes. But most people understand that they are a necessary investment to unlock much greater opportunities and privileges in your adult life.

I wonder if surround-mirrors might help? The kind where you can see yourself from all angles? Because in some cases (not all, but in the 'sanitary-towel-showing/pubic hair poking out' scenarios) I wonder if it's more a case of people not having checked their back view. Short skirts look great from the front, lots of leg on display, but, like many outfits, there can be a wake-up call when it's possible to see yourself walking away...

There are, of course, many girls who LIKE having their bums entirely visible, but being able to see one's back view might be a chastening experience for some.

You don’t sound very impressed at all with your children’s schools @Gloriia if you’re concerned about their focus on the curriculum.

Maybe that should be your focus?

I'm absolutely baffled at the idea that, as long as a teenager is doing well in her studies at school, then safeguarding her from the potential dangers of showing her private parts in public and also teaching her to respect others who don't want to see it are somehow completely irrelevant!

If what you say is true, I think you need to direct your complaints to Ofsted. Ofsted has imposed a lot of petty rules on schools in recent years. Sadly teachers have to do things like check lunchboxes. At one time it was so ridiculous that a school near us lost its designated status as a 'Healthy School', or whatever was the current obsession, because an Ofsted inspector found a Mars bar in one child's lunch box.

That's what teachers are having to deal with - ridiculous pressure from above and parents who know very little about how schools have to operate and who obstruct teachers at every turn are just adding to the problems by taking up what precious time is left to actually teach the curriculum.

Every time a silly student decides 'I'm a rebel, me!' and flouts uniform or other rules it takes up teachers' time from what they really want to do.

Go ahead and challenge every little memo, email and rule enforcement, but your children will be the ones who suffer. And presumably, when you entered your children for their schools, you read and agreed to abide by the rules??

Yes, I agree. I think there are some girls who dress in the morning and cursorily glance at themselves (whilst standing up) straight on in the mirror - and are unable to understand that a lot will change, move and ride up throughout the day when they walk around, sit down and walk up stairs.

I bet a lot more of them check their hair a lot throughout the day than think to check whether they are flashing people.