AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

Well ... Writing "so they don't look like utter Muppets" would be frowned upon.

Yes, this. There are plenty of perfectly acceptable skirts and trousers out there. If they refuse to comply with one of them, why will they with the other - and why woukd you let them get away with one of them but not with the other?

Our school is trousers only. I think it's a great idea, I hated skirts as a kid. (I don't have girls).

How is it sexist - it’s pro- feminist.

humans should dress how they want and not be attacked based on what they wear but they can’t in school as there’s a policy. Why is there a policy? Because despite it being no excuse to attack a woman or a child, people still do!

It's nothing to do with what women and girls should be able to wear without being attacked; it's about people knowing what is acceptable in public and not flashing at people who don't want to be flashed at.

The standard applies to both sexes - it's just that boys (and indeed men, apart from the obvious perverts) don't routinely dress in such a way that they are flashing other people in public.

How can it possibly be pro-feminist for a teenage girl to dress in such a way that a female teacher (or a male one, for that matter) is forced to look at her private body parts against her will? Or otherwise have to seriously restrict where she looks all day whilst at work because of that teenage girl's deliberate choices?

I’ve complained to my local school several times about the ultra short skirts. Some of the girls knickers are on display - I draw the line at that. I do not want to see a 14 year girls knickers on display

short skirts - as long as they’d be a length acceptable in the work place I’m fine with. I don’t expect skirts to be 1” above the knee which was the bizarre rule at my all girls state school! But when they’re walking along the road with their knickers on display - no

How do you word your complaint? How does the school respond?

The school were being pro-feminist - they were looking after their young women and girls by setting examples of appropriate attire. The OP thinks the newsletter was sexist to address this, I disagree - they’re looking out for all students.

Clothing (or lack of) should never be an excuse to assault a woman - but it still happens - so that’s why the newsletter says ‘it’s not a good idea’ it would never be the victims fault if an abuser attacked them because they wore a short skirt - but the fa t remains - there are sickos out there that still will and the school are right to say ‘it’s not a good idea’

it’s also not pleasant to see anyone’s underwear - in sick of seeing young girls (and women, but children as young as 7-8 also) on holiday wearing thong bikinis - horrid!

At the secondary i work at the girls have to wear opaque tights which means if they do roll them you cant see anything .

Criminal elements exist, end of story. Pretending they don't to act like we live in some perfect world is silly.

And fault is a loaded term. You still have personal responsibility for our own safety, we all do. If you don't want to accept that, go for it. But teach children it, and let them decide when they are an adult if they want to stupidly ignore it as well not before then.

I would assume they mean that it's not a 'good idea' as it violates their uniform policy and will lead to behaviour sanctions?

Maybe it's common for students to roll up their skirts when traveling then forget to make them an appropriate length when they get to school?

But it still looks awful!

There are few good reason to not walk about with your bum hanging out, including offending members of the public to the extent that they call the school to complain!

I think you'll find that's their primary concern.

humans should dress how they want

But humans can't dress how they want. There are many circumstances where what you wear is dictated by health and safety requirements, whether that's working in a hospital or on a building site or climbing in the Scottish Highlands. Or because of standards of public decency. Or because workplaces, restaurants etc are at liberty to set their own dress codes. Or because stately homes can ban stiletto heels because of the damage caused to flooring. Or simply because your mother wants you to take your muddy boots off before you enter the house and take off your greasy overalls before you sit on her sofa.

Told me the pupils behaviour is exemplary 🤷. Wasn’t what I complained about

Yes, we used to say "it's snowing down south".

From another who went to school in the 60s/70s, when we did indeed roll up our skirts in line with current fashion but most certainly not to show our bums and knickers - we would have been mortified to do so.

I've never seen skirts as short here (not the UK), and very much doubt it would be tolerated. Why are some schools allowing it there?

Once you bend at the hips to sit down, your skirt/trousers/shorts have further to go round your arse than when they're hanging straight down, so they'll ride-up massively. It's not particularly pleasant to have to work next to someone whose clothes barely cover their thigh-tops from the side, and flash their pants from the front if the desk isn't very wide - fine when WHF, but in schools and workplaces - no thanks.

I have already said this, but I live near a large high school with a gender neutral uniform. I have only ever seen two or three girls wearing trousers, they all seem to prefer skirts - which are not revealingly short btw. I wouldn't have wanted to wear trousers when I was at school, and didn't wear them to work.

Basically, schools should move into the 21st century and alter the uniform so that it is no longer skirts. I’m not being sexist in any way and I speak as someone involved in education. Schools are under intense scrutiny and pressure on this issue across the whole country. I’m personally in favour of a sports type uniform that is unisex. Even gym leggings are better, in my personal view, than these hitched up skirts. Schools can’t win if they take a hard line or not, if pupils protest.

Thanks for clarifying - I agree with you, then.

However, I still don't see why "because we don't go around making other people look at our our bottoms and private areas in public" isn't enough in itself for some people on this thread - without all of the other concerns, justified as they clearly are.

A girl at my DS's school was told by the teacher that her skirt was ridiculously short, so she responded by simply removing it so she was just wearing her tights.

I think there are some girls who genuinely seem to believe that their uniform is effectively tights (at least those who bother with them) or (extremely short) cycling shorts - with the skirt being nothing more than a decorous accessory.

Probably the same as when reports of nasty bullying are reframed by schools as 'friendship issues'.

You'd think (hope) they'd be mortified at their pupils, representing them and the school, dressing in such a way as the general public feel the need to complain; but apparently they just don't care.

And? What happened next?

So how did you word your complaint about the length of the skirts? @Biggles27

Part of the issues is that some (! by far not all!) women and girls confuse feminism with being a brat.
Not a teacher, but we have a lot of interns at work.
The guys are mostly ok,usually easy to weed out the not so great ones at interview.
The girls seem to fall in 2 grops: amazing, or bratty. The last 2 were the bratty category, full of “i’m a girl, I need help, can do what I want and if i get criticism, it’s because you are sexist”. That attitude is really doing some damage to all women!