the behaviour of most men

[notevensurprised]

I’m in my 50s.

Almost all important and non important men in my life, have disappointed me in catastrophic ways. Some directly treating me badly. Some indirectly by treating people I love badly.

I’m at the stage where the scales have fallen from my eyes. Not just fallen, but disappeared into a black hole. I know this happens for many women in perimenopause. I know we suddenly look up and around at this age and we are absolutely done with tolerating bad behaviour.

Some of my own personal stories relating to bad behaviour from men relate to verbal and physical abuse, financial and economic abuse, infidelity and cheating, inequality within the home in terms of chores and life admin, inequality in the workplace and in salaries.

I am just so done.

I’ve been devastated by the actions of my own DF, my own DH, ex BFs, uncles, cousins, friends.

There was one remaining man who I held in high esteem my entire life. BIL of decades. The brother I never had. I learnt recently he has cheated for years. When my DSIS told me, it was just like the last remaining shred of… I can’t even think of the word…. died within me.

It could not be more shocking in terms of who he appears to be from the outside. And yet I am numb.

The world seems to be run and controlled by lunatic men at the moment and this is just the icing on the cake.

This final revelation means I have zero belief in the goodness of any man any longer. I was holding on to it by a shred anyway.

AIBU to feel that the majority of men are cheating, abusive, lazy, weak willed, insecure, selfish, overpaid, mediocre, disrespectful fools?

How many threads from women who do not "allow" their husband to even speak with another woman?

The word controlling is used about anything and everything...

And many more who don't (yet) realise that their male partner/ husband isn't quite the decent chap they think he is.

meanwhile, emergency services, doctors, teachers, or just normal friends, normal families, dads, brothers, mates.. the world is full of absolutely decent men, who wouldn't even think to control, abuse or insult, and who even make it their job to stop those who do!

There are way too many sex offenders and dickhead, but it's completely ridiculous to pretend they are the majority, or that it's men vs women, we are amazing but they are shit.

Some of the most vile people I have had the misfortune to meet were women. And when you read comments from some of the posters on here, I'd be more worried about women than men frankly.

@YourPoliteTurtle you sound very irritated with women talking about their lived experiences on this thread.

One of the men I mentioned who was convicted, worked previously for the emergency services. This is where he committed his offence, it was against a patient. We all know how difficult it is to get a conviction against sexual assaults on women. He got sent to prison.

A few years back I dated a domestic violence police detective who put his hands around my throat during sex. We'd never had a conversation about this prior, and if we had, I'd have said no, I don't want that. My ex-husband strangled me, so it's not something I particularly enjoy.

As I say, they really are everywhere.

it's telling that you have to translate my different view point as me being irritated?

I am not denying your experience, but again, it's not mine, and it's not the one of close women I speak with. Why would we lie?

Why do you have to try to picture me as irritated, when I just don't agree with you? I have no reason to be tense or anything, I have good men and women in my life. I cannot imagine how heavy it must be to live in a world where you think half the population is your enemy.

I don't know why some women get in contact with so many violent men, and others don't?

The point is that 2 things can be true. You can have the brothers, nurses ,doctors and paramedics and those men can have a dark side. You are not going to know they are intrinsically a good guy, you are just assuming that because you are not in a relationship with them all. PP stated she dated Mr Ordinary 'good guy' and look what happened.

Why would you lie ? you’re on an Internet forum and nobody can confirm your experience? You could be sat there with two black eyes inflicted by your male partner trying to deny this.
And you probably are
You doth protest too much

@YourPoliteTurtle You didn’t even engage with a word that @DontBotherJustChooseYourself wrote about some appalling experiences.

You just went on to defend your worldview. Why were you not able to engage about another poster’s experiences, does that happen often to you when men and men’s behaviour is criticised?

And me.
It's such bullshit.
I know of 60-year-old women who are still chasing unsuitable men.

You're as sensible-or not-before or after it.

I concur. I also used to disagree with this view, then had a few experiences and hit a certain age and the scales fell from my eyes. If men aren't violent and abusive and nasty they're often incredibly selfish. I know one elderly man who others who don't know him that well think of as great. They don't know his history (wife beater, high functioning alcoholic, part time druggie, sex tourist, v selfish). His friends and acquaintances think he's lovely and one of the good ones.

I know a fair few middle aged ones, quite a few are doing the modern flex of "I have mental health problems" which conveniently means they do fuck all and everything is about them.

One that I know has a fairly new gf and young baby and she thinks he's wonderful. He treats her well. She doesn't know about his past violence and temper and cheating. He works away a lot so I think this means he keeps his dark side at bay. I imagine she'll be one of those in ten or twenty years blindsided by the behaviour of this "good guy" he's fucking pretending because it suits him to.

As someone mentioned up thread, the stats of sexual abuse and child abuse online users are staggeringly high. And the ones that don't do that stuff are usually v selfish and thoughtless. It's true it's true it's true. The pearl clutchers are just in some deep denial. And as for the whataboutery, it's true women can be awful, but as many have already said, it's rare they'll be violent or into sexual abuse or selfish to the point of doing fuck all for other people.

How many threads have we seen on here from women stunned because the man they thought was one of the good ones turns out not to be? I don't know a single one, well I know one who might be but I haven't spent a lot of time with him continually so, my judgement is reserved. They walk among us.

And before, when I was a pearl clutcher, it wasn't that I hadn't been on the receiving end of men, I had. It's just some very bad things happened and I couldn't deny it anymore and over time as I looked around at all the women I know I saw how their lives were turning out and what their men did to them too and it became roaringly undeniable.

While some of the things the men have done here are undeniably truly awful and if I had my way they'd all be shot, or put in a pit to starve, frankly I don't give a shit if they do. They are beneath contempt and deserve no compassion.

I do have to say, though. that having read this thread I am now convinced that women are generally solipsistic.

'I've had 3 terrible things happen to me, therefore all men are like this.'

Jesus Christ. Being selfish and thoughtless does not make somebody a terrible human being.
Women can be thoughtless and selfish, too.
They really can be.

Obviously men commit more violent, heinous crime. Nobody sane would deny it!

But when it comes to thoughtlessness and selfishness, there's no difference between men and women.

My DD is 14 and I caught a man at the opticians yesterday looking at her legs, he worked there and was in his 50s. I gave him the deadliest stare imaginable, I wanted to punch him in truth. She had shorts on because it’s hot but she’s a child ffs and it’s pretty obvious she is. I think parenting girls is hard for this reason, I felt like a bear or lion in that moment like take your eyes off my child you fucking creep.

Some men are honestly great. They know where to keep their eyes, they don’t make you feel uncomfortable as a woman in any way, they’re just genuinely kind and lovely people. It definitely isn’t all men but yeah, a lot of them give me the heebies. I just feel like I have to be careful around them and don’t know how to read them. Because I’m also young myself (I’m only 33) and attractive, it’s still very much an issue for me. You’re always questioning whether they’re being nice or just wanting to screw you, no matter how old they are.

If you read it you're realise what women are saying is the opposite ie these men are everywhere. Denial stops progress.

Sadly i agree with you OP. Genuinely positive interactions with men have been fewwww and far between in my life, and i dont just mean my own direct experiences, its hearing and seeing what happens to others too.

I do accept that some men are truly awful human beings. I really do.

I'm not denying anybody's experience of this at all but the set of behaviours of what makes men terrible is being expanded to include behaviours that aren't heinous.
A bit thoughtless and selfish, for example. Doesn't do many chores.
Hardly on the same level as a wife beater.

And these behaviours are very much apparent in women, too.
Cheating for example. As it happens, women cheat more than men but that's another story.

Do they? Do you have a source for that? Last time I looked it was the opposite, but that could’ve changed.

Yeah being thoughtless and lazy and selfish isn't evil but it shows they don't give a fuck about others, or if they do, it's only because that they want you to keep serving them. Stop serving them. See what happens.

I think when you’ve worked in male dominated environments, as I have, and have seen men work together day in day out and the way they talk about women - even the nice guys - it really opens your eyes. Yet to meet a woman who has worked in similar circumstances who hasn’t had the same experience of men.

When you’ve seen so many men pose themselves as helpful, kind, caring, then slowly realise they’re doing it to try to get into women’s knickers, it opens your eyes.

This doesn’t happen with a minority of men, it’s so common it’s typical, but these men are good at hiding it, then they are defended by other men and by too many women, upholding their misogyny.

No. We’ve spent a lifetime being conditioned to make way for men, to sit aside and excuse their behaviour.
In perimenopause our hormones change in a way that allows us to see the bullshit (I’ve seen this described so well with levels of hormones quoted, but sadly I can’t remember it, ironically perimeno brain fog 😬)

Rather telling that you consider this weakness or that we’re idiots, when it’s well known that women reach their 40s and the scales lift.

This comment is just nonsense. It really is.

Why are you making this out to be some sort of achievement?

It's not the scales lifting at all, it's just the hormones that lead some women to get into a quid pro quo relationship whereby she puts up with selfish (albeit not heinous) behaviour from him in return from something from him goes.

There's no great enlightenment.
It's the equivalent of a man settling down at 50.
It's nothing to do with any enlightenment that monogamy is the way to live, just his hormones decreasing.

And to be frank some women remain in pleasing men mode beyond menopause.

This isn't my life experience.

Actually, what my life experience is teaching me as I get older is that any sentence that starts "all men..." or "all women..." is incredibly stupid. Seeing any given individual through the prism of their sex first is so alien to me.

I've unfortunately experienced appalling behaviour from men - but also wonderful behaviour from different men. The appalling behaviour wasn't intrinsic to their maleness. That also goes for the appalling behaviour (and wonderful behaviour) I've experienced from women.

I was a very misanthropic teenager who hated most people, and definitely most men. One of the nicest surprises in my life as I've got older has been finding out how brilliant so many people really are.

I'll say that about men though: to be fair to them when their desire to have as many as women as possible goes because their hormones decrease, they don't generally write articles about how enlightened they are.

Edited to say that this post was not directed to the post it replied to.
Posted in error.

that's such a twisted view, I won't even bother to comment.
If you genuinely believe I can't have a different opinion without being physically abused and lying to myself about it?
That's very scary. You need therapy.

One of the reasons I hate all the "perimenopause is feminist enlightenment" discourse is that what they don't say is that it isn't just men that they feel able to be nasty to - it's young women as well. When I read about the scale of hostility that some middle-aged women apparently feel about everyone else, a lot of behaviour I experienced in my teens and 20s from older women suddenly made a lot of sense.

The post says most men. Not all.