the behaviour of most men

[notevensurprised]

I’m in my 50s.

Almost all important and non important men in my life, have disappointed me in catastrophic ways. Some directly treating me badly. Some indirectly by treating people I love badly.

I’m at the stage where the scales have fallen from my eyes. Not just fallen, but disappeared into a black hole. I know this happens for many women in perimenopause. I know we suddenly look up and around at this age and we are absolutely done with tolerating bad behaviour.

Some of my own personal stories relating to bad behaviour from men relate to verbal and physical abuse, financial and economic abuse, infidelity and cheating, inequality within the home in terms of chores and life admin, inequality in the workplace and in salaries.

I am just so done.

I’ve been devastated by the actions of my own DF, my own DH, ex BFs, uncles, cousins, friends.

There was one remaining man who I held in high esteem my entire life. BIL of decades. The brother I never had. I learnt recently he has cheated for years. When my DSIS told me, it was just like the last remaining shred of… I can’t even think of the word…. died within me.

It could not be more shocking in terms of who he appears to be from the outside. And yet I am numb.

The world seems to be run and controlled by lunatic men at the moment and this is just the icing on the cake.

This final revelation means I have zero belief in the goodness of any man any longer. I was holding on to it by a shred anyway.

AIBU to feel that the majority of men are cheating, abusive, lazy, weak willed, insecure, selfish, overpaid, mediocre, disrespectful fools?

It’s always the mothers in denial
🙄

YANBU

I'm in my sixties now, and I can tell you you are not wrong. But I've had a long journey to get to this point.

Reading many of the responses here I found myself saying 'yes, I lived behind those rose tinted glasses for years too.' I don't blame women for their (or my previous) insistence that most men are decent; we have to believe that for own peace of mind, especially if we have children.Yet we see it on this site, week after week, month after month - the utter shock at the behaviour of a man they had totally trusted and believed in. I'm reminded of Elizabeth Taylor 'I fell off my pink cloud with a thud.'

Menopause, once it all settled down and I become free of the sexual imperative, has brought a more clear eyed view of how men actually are. I've been single by choice for 20 years as I had a child to raise alone, and I am SO glad now I kept to that decision. The issue is not just that men can be dangerous, and many of them certainly are, but the crux of the matter seems to me to be that they only think about themselves. In everyday life, everything is about them, what they want, and what they need to get it. Say no to them, without apology, without excuse or 'kindness' and see the reaction. Abandoned children feel that the father doesn't love them. How do you tell a child that actually it's nothing to do with them personally, it's just that the man didn't want to be a dad. It was all about him and what he wanted, he barely gave the child itself a thought. It's the same selfishness that means they can justify affairs, neglect, hiding resources, extreme porn use etc etc, while appearing to be good husbands and decent members of society.

I don't hate men per se, I have a brother who I love dearly but God, I do roll my eyes at some of the stuff he comes out with. And he doesn't even realise there's anything wrong with it. I pull him up, but I'm not sure how much attention he pays. Like most men I've known, he's very sure of his own opinions, no matter how little evidence he may have to support them.

So my attitude to men now is to keep my distance. I'm polite and will engage in the requisite social niceties but tend to avoid getting into anything deeper. In fact, the last time I did allow it, was a situation where I was asked to contribute to a talk as I have lived experience of the issue being presented. I was patronised by two men who had none of my experience and were much younger than me, but who clearly thought their lofty opinions were much more worthy than my actual life. I won't make that mistake again! I just don't have the energy for it anymore. I will say though, one man who also lived it did come up to me afterwards and said to pay no attention, they were clearly trying to wind me up. Which was decent of him. 1 out of 3- I wonder if that is anywhere near the truth of it?

I learnt my lesson really early in life about how men can present in a way that hides their true character. I had a paper round as a child. A man approached me asking if I could put a leaflet through each door with each newspaper. I said sure. He was immaculate, dressed in an expensive suit, drove a very expensive car, sounded educated and kind. He told me to get into his car and he’d show me which streets he wanted me to drop leaflets at. He drove me to a secluded spot and tried to rape me. They say when a child suddenly realises they are about to be murdered or assaulted, they do one of two things. They either freeze in complete terror, or they fight for their lives. I fought for my life. It was enough to fluster him so that I could escape. He told me he didn’t want to upset me and how much he loved his wife and children.

I’ve no doubt, to this day, his mother and his close ones think he’s a kind, sensitive man.

Waiting for someone to come along and tell me it was my fault and I attract the wrong sort of men.

There’s fawn too. Appease the crap out of him until you can get out of there and deal with it later. I’ve done all at various points.

The freezing one is the one that cemented things for me. I was 17 by then so been there done that several times, including fighting like mad and screaming my head off.

It was just so fucked up, such a level of entitlement that I couldn’t process it.

Here I am at a table , with 3 other girls with the esteemed professor X. Yes , in his home , but you know , with 3 other girls!!! His wife was in the kitchen making dinner!! His son in his bedroom revising. At the same table as 3 other girls. And he comes over , leans over me and while telling me how to solve the maths question I was stuck on, he started touching me under my jumper. And like an idiot I stood there, listened to his words still working on that fucking word problem. I was sure it wasn’t happening, he’ll surely stop, it’s a mistake, an accident. It didn’t stop. It went on for ages (probably minutes, but you know) all over my body. And i still sat there. It wasn’t happening, he’ll surely stop , it’s a mistake. There are three other girls here. His wife is right next door. So is his kid. I could scream . I could kick off. What is he thinking. Surely this is not happening.

At the end of the session I said thank you like i always did ffs!! Not just that , but I went back!! Because it couldn’t have happened. Not like that. It must’ve been an accident. A mistake. Then it happened again. And I kept quiet again. And I said thank you again.

I did tell. No one gave a shit or worse. I didn’t go back. Found another tutor myself. I passed my fucking tests. I still hate functions and inverses. Don’t get them. Don’t get why I didn’t scream or fight or shout or swear like i did before. Don’t get him. Don’t get his entitlement, his arrogance, his invincibility.

I went to a talk last year given by a woman who runs an NGO that helps women who've been sex trafficked.

One of the attendees asked if there is a typical profile of the men who buy sex from these women.

Absolutely, was the response. She calls it the 3Ms - middle aged, middle class, married.

I understand you, OP. I'm a similar age to you, and my life has been greatly compromised by horrible men who have ruined many, many years of my life. I had an abusive father and that was followed by an abusive boyfriend, who I eventually got rid of and then met my husband, who turned abusive after marriage and emigration. Took me years to get free of him.

I do think there are some decent men around; however, there's no decency detector and you often don't know what you're dealing with until your heart is invested and you've wasted quite a long time. Also, most of the decent men were snapped up when they were young.

I didn't get any peace until I was 50, and this is the most peaceful stage of my life so far, with no close male relatives and no committed relationship.

Having men in my life again simply is not worth the risk. I'm more than half a century old, and men have done nothing but be nasty to me and break my heart. I will protect my current peace at all costs. Yes, it can be lonely, but I have lived with abuse and I have lived with loneliness. The latter is far, far better.

Why have you assumed my examples don’t include many ‘dull’ men?

Well in Genesis the word for woman is Ezer Kenegdo, which means ‘Rescuing strength’ and the word used for men in Genesis 4 is Enoch which means ‘weak willed’. No matter your personal view on the Bible - those ancient names didn’t come from no where.

The man I woke up to find having sex with me was a sweet, sensitive soul. He has volunteered abroad to help people in war. He is attractive and warm and has a long term partner he adores. He also went upstairs at a house party and found a girl passed out in a bed and had sex with her.

Yanbu op. I totally agree. Suspect those disagreeing are boy mums, or with male partners. Interesting to see where some of their opinions lie in another 5/10/20 years.

YABU

your experience is valid

but so are the experience of many many others. "most men" is unreasonable because it's not factual.

I have also blamed myself like that. That being abused as a kid has made me a vulnerable magnet for the worst of men. But what is truly heartbreaking is that these worst of men exist everywhere, ready to identify my vulnerability. They all look and speak differently, come from all walks of life, lives in all areas of the country.

it would be strange if people with a different opinion and different experience did not have contact with male...literally the point!

I am grateful that the behaviour of most men is a positive one. Or it would be a very grim world indeed. I am in the UK, not in Afghanistan, it's relevant!

that's why you are BU

You pretend that someone with a different experience is either lying or in denial. If you can't accept that you having bad experience means we ALL have the same, it's on you. It's sad.

Why is it not factual?

I wouldn't say the majority are over paid. But the rest you said.....
Yeah.

Similar for me, even due to my "BIL" turning out to be a serial cheater.

that "MOST MEN" are evil, show bad behaviour, are abusive.

I know this happens for many women in perimenopause. I know we suddenly look up and around at this age and we are absolutely done with tolerating bad behaviour.

I find that really insulting frankly.

So we are all idiots, or weak, until we reach perimenopause? I am also sick and tired of hearing about the bloody perimenopause used to justify anything and everything.

Yes, but I didn’t ask what. I asked why isn’t it factual?

It is just soul destroying isn’t it.

By overpaid I don’t just mean being paid for something they might not be very good at, but also that sectors and professions that favour men or are male dominated are paid much more than those strongly associated with women. Anyone would think it’s to ensure women remain financially controlled and unable to leave.

For example, female dominated jobs that are poorly paid: cleaners, teachers, nurses, receptionists, care workers, retail staff, childcare, hospitality, beauty therapists and hairdressers

Male dominated sectors that are paid enough to survive alone: engineering, IT and tech, builders and all tradesmen, handymen, gardeners, firemen, stockbrokers, doctors, long distance truck drivers, jobs requiring brute strength like tree surgeons

I didn’t need to wait for my estrogen to bottom out to realise most men are shit no. It just means my tolerance for their bullshit is lower. Which is a great thing. At no point did I infer women are weak before menopause. Most women are amazing, strong and awesome during all stages of their lives.

what do you mean?

the simple fact is: not MOST men are bad. Bad grammar,but you get my point

but again, it's all about YOU, and your experience.

Fair enough, but that's not MY experience or the experience of many women. Maybe I never had a tolerance for bullshit either from the start, so I am surrounded by the good ones. Or I am lucky. Or I accept that men and women can be equally bad, or equally good. It's down to individual, not sex/ gender.

Solidarity, OP.

I agree.

Many, many of us have the same experiences, and no, we did not bring it on ourselves... I was 8 years old when the gardener my mum hired was caught with his tongue in my mouth.

Like many women, I have too many stories ranging from downright horrific to the general shittyness of men to go into on here, now spanning over 4 decades.

I do fear that there are multitudes of women out there with the rose glasses on, thinking their 'Derek' or whoever is "one of the good ones", when actually there is a hidden, and very depressing dark reality about who 'Derek' really is.

For anyone who thinks that Mumsnet is full of diabolical stories about horrific men because "people in good relationships don't come on here to talk about it", true, but what is also true is that there are countless women out there whose stories of a similar vein are also not on here. And many more who don't (yet) realise that their male partner/ husband isn't quite the decent chap they think he is.

Against my better judgment to remain single on purpose for the rest of my life, earlier this year I dated someone very briefly. We had a brilliant couple of months... then he turned. Out came the controlling behaviour, the put-downs, the sulking. Just another shit man. He was what some on this thread would have described as being one of the solid, 'boring' types. And that's exactly what attracted me to him. I thought, "Aahh, here is a rare chance to have a nice relationship with someone who will be reasonable. Someone who is grounded, realistic, and caring". And he was, until he couldn't keep holding up his mask.

I ended it and invested good money into a fantastic vibrator that won't control, insult, or frighten me.

I have had the HollieGuard app on my phone since an incident a couple of years ago whereby I got followed by a creep in broad daylight. That hadn't happened for a long time, and I made a rookie error of thinking that now I'm older and a bit plumper, I wasn't a target. I won't be making that mistake again.

Which leads me on to one last thing I would like to say. I worked for a long time in a fairly small company. 2 of the men there were sex offenders. One left the company and has since been jailed for raping an elderly woman, and the other had a prison sentence years before working there, again for a similar crime, which no one initially knew about until another member of staff Googled him!

Literally sitting here now thinking about all the other dickhead men I've had the displeasure of working with over the years, but it will be war and peace (not much peaceful about it tbf) if I start typing it all out, and that's before even going into the dickheads I've dated, and the dickheads my friends and family have had to endure.

They are everywhere. They work amongst us, they walk amongst us, they live on our roads, they're related to us. Every-fucking-where.