the behaviour of most men

[notevensurprised]

I’m in my 50s.

Almost all important and non important men in my life, have disappointed me in catastrophic ways. Some directly treating me badly. Some indirectly by treating people I love badly.

I’m at the stage where the scales have fallen from my eyes. Not just fallen, but disappeared into a black hole. I know this happens for many women in perimenopause. I know we suddenly look up and around at this age and we are absolutely done with tolerating bad behaviour.

Some of my own personal stories relating to bad behaviour from men relate to verbal and physical abuse, financial and economic abuse, infidelity and cheating, inequality within the home in terms of chores and life admin, inequality in the workplace and in salaries.

I am just so done.

I’ve been devastated by the actions of my own DF, my own DH, ex BFs, uncles, cousins, friends.

There was one remaining man who I held in high esteem my entire life. BIL of decades. The brother I never had. I learnt recently he has cheated for years. When my DSIS told me, it was just like the last remaining shred of… I can’t even think of the word…. died within me.

It could not be more shocking in terms of who he appears to be from the outside. And yet I am numb.

The world seems to be run and controlled by lunatic men at the moment and this is just the icing on the cake.

This final revelation means I have zero belief in the goodness of any man any longer. I was holding on to it by a shred anyway.

AIBU to feel that the majority of men are cheating, abusive, lazy, weak willed, insecure, selfish, overpaid, mediocre, disrespectful fools?

what do you want me to say? I am not denying her experience, I am not pretending it didn't happen.

I am not pretending that parents who abuse their kids do not exist, or that it doesn't happen simply because I had great parents. I am not going to argue about what she experienced, why would I?
But keeping with this analogy... I would also say that it's absolutely not true that MOST parents are abusive, simply because some kids have experienced abuse.

Unlike you, I am not here for a fight.

I stand by my point, no, it's not the behaviour of MOST men. I am not sure why others are trying to convince themselves is most men, it's sad for them, it must be claustrophobic to live in such an utopian world

The way you write is actually very conflict oriented and you have accused me of that behaviour too.

The difference between you and me is I can accept that about myself whereas you deny reality.

again.. that's YOUR experience.

I am not conditioned to "make way for men", or sit aside and excuse anything. From them, or from women frankly. Maybe that's why we have different experience. I don't put up with bullshit or bad treatment from anyone, and won't be bullied by men, or women.

it’s well known that women reach their 40s and the scales lift.
it's really not. You might be in a small little bubble where everybody agrees with you, and it's well known in your circle.

You have convinced yourself and your little group that men are at best hiding their bad nature and are an entirely different species.

I am glad I dont' live in your world. I believe in PEOPLE, women can be just as bad as men, or worst.

You know who had the same language? Racists, who tried to convince themselves and others that other races were "different", "deep down a threat" and should never be mistakenly accepted as their own. Read about it. Testimonies are everywhere, and racism still exist today. I read a few posts from posters fainting in horror because "men are so DIRTY! just for being MEN". Come on...

We can only hope with progress people will learn to be less prejudiced and ignorant, and your silly beliefs will go away.

if having a different opinion is "conflict oriented" for you, I see what part of the problem might be

I am not going to agree with nonsense just to look better and think I'd give a better impression.
That's literally what people like you accuse women to do facing men 😂
No, most of us really do not do that.

That just means women are underpaid not that lost men are overpaid.

No it’s the smugness, the dismissiveness of other people’s experiences, the inability to take in rational evidence that challenges your world view. Your unwillingness to look objectively at how you engage in difference of opinions, anyway clearly this conversation is unproductive due to the above so I’ll disengage.

No it means those professions are dominated by mediocre men who probably wouldn’t even be able to get a job as a receptionist. They lack the skill set but they’re deemed suitable to run a department.
Tale as old as time

I have a question for the mums of wonderful young men/boys.You’re adamant your child wouldn’t do a bad thing. Fair enough, you know then and I don’t.

However , if their friends were doing the bad thing, would they join in, would they help them? Would they do anything about it? Try to stop them? Get help /get an adult? Would they sit by passively? Would they at least offer help after? Comfort? Support? Offer the tell/be a witness?
Would you even know about it?
Not doing the bad thing is not good enough. Again, I speak from experience, but I won’t bore you all with another tale of woe.

Ah so it’s because you’re special/not kind of woman. Gotcha!

if someone is dismissing other people' s experience, it's very obviously not me...

if your daughter was in a group of bullies, would she join, would she help? would she do anything about it?

Why are you asking about boys only? We have daughters as well.

I guess the question is whether it's because they're men or not, then?

If they behave badly because they're men, it makes sense to avoid men, but doesn't explain the men who don't behave like that.

In my experience exploitative, selfish and abusive behaviour is not correlated to sex at all (indeed, I can't name a single character trait which I think is linked to someone being a man or a woman).

Thank you so much for proving my point, that it's too often other women who are a lot more difficult to deal with and trying to bully the rest of us.
So thanks for making the argument for me.

Possible jealousy. Don't get me wrong, some women just accept that their time in the sun as a young woman has gone.
I mean we all hate getting older but some are more accepting of it than others.

Yes. I know because it happened.

And I am asking because this is a thread about men. Because passively sitting around while another peer is being hurt doesn’t equal decent and lovely. Because I wasn’t sexually assaulted by 6 female classmates, it was 6 male classmates. Because the ones that sat around were also males. Not one said anything, did anything or even left the room. They stood there and watched like it was a fucking spectator sport.There was one girl present, and she did try to help , but her boyfriend told her to sit down and shut up otherwise they’ll turn on her too. I don’t blame her. Never saw her again after that day either, she dumped him and never got near any of us. Don’t blame her for that either.

Anyway, back to my question… which you didn’t actually answer.

You literally said “maybe our experiences differ because I don’t put up with bullshit or with bad treatment from anyone”. You put yourself above others. It was luck , pure and simple.

David attenborough's alright

Yes men can be horrible but women choose to ignore the red flags, if youve known your BIL for 30 years his partner must have known or suspected, i think if my partner had been unfaithful for 30 yesrs there would be signs, there is a difference between being unfaithful and using sex workers as most sex workers are either abused or dont want to be doing it, any man that uses sex workers in thailand is a POS, if you see the red flags but choose to ignore them and stay he knows hes got you where he wants you

Under His Eye

Because when young we want sex so its lust and we ignore red flags, past menopause with no sex drive we want someone decent, lust has a lot to answer for, my friend married to the worlds most boring man said to me you were always in lust which is true

Speaking about romantic relationships I was told a few times by a close friend 'oh you've always been unlucky in love'. Like the problem was me. I kept 'choosing' badly. How do you know though? He presented himself as a charming, intelligent man who seemed to like me...until he was controlling me and eventually punching me in the face on my birthday because I smiled at the barman. I was lucky that I managed to get away. This was 25 years ago. Now after being disappointed 16 years ago by the father of my daughter, (he has disappointed her as well) I have been single and happy and peaceful.

Do you not see how they are linked and are a spectrum?

All you superior beings who think women are just as bad as men....tell me, how many women abandon their children compared to the number of men who abandon their children? How many single dads are there, compared to single mums?

It’s interesting, had a look the other day at a men’s equivalent of MN. Lots saying they have a porn addiction, or never had a relationship or feel very lonely. Sad really. Yet my own experience aside from DF not dissimilar to yours OP. Known a lot of disappointing men and yet if only they’d step up, grow up and be faithful, reliable and dependable could be win-win. CBA with them now though. Don’t hate anyone btw. Just reach an age men-children completely unattractive and being on your own better. Maybe explains why happiest groups are single women…

Exactly. My sexual and romantic relationships (that I chose) ranged from ok to good to great to I’ll actually marry this one, with only two exceptions. It’s all the other men I encountered in my life and over which I had/have no control that were the issue … family,peers, partners of friends, acquaintances , even strangers etc.