To feel helpless and in all honesty intimidated by my toddler?

[terrorisedbytoddler]

I know I’m going to get absolutely flamed for being pathetic but my toddlers behaviour has really ramped up recently and I am struggling so much.

She is 3 next month. Her older sister is 5 and a half. Their relationship is the thing that I’m most upset about. DD2 is awful to DD1. If DD1 has anything she just charges after her screaming ‘it’s mine’ and trying to take it from her. It feels completely undignified getting in the midst of them and effectively wrestling but neither listen (unless you scream your head off which I have resorted to) and then if I return whatever it is to DD1 she just charges after her again. I’ve been concerned at this in social settings too; she’s fine unless another child takes something (even if she wasn’t playing with it) she starts the ‘it’s mine, it’s mine’ and more often than not the other child gives it to her and I wish this wouldn’t happen but I can’t really control what other people do and I can understand it: they can’t enjoy or play with whatever it is with her squawking and screaming the place down.

She will get obsessed with something and won’t stop going on about it. Screams and repeats the same thing over and over eg I want milk, I want milk, even if you’ve got her milk.

She constantly slams onto me getting into my space and shoving and pushing dd1 out of the way. She is so demanding all the time; I feel like I spend my day having orders barked at me.

It affects me hugely which means it affects all of us.

I am really worn down with her at the moment and I know it sounds awful but I just wish I’d never had her. I do love her but I don’t like her at all and the like feels like it’s dominating over the love.

At home, have 2 toys the same so each kid can have a red crayon or a plastic bus or whatever at the same time. Get a few cheap toys in pairs. Kids that age love parallel play where both play with their own bus at the same time.

That sounds such common sense @parietal but honestly even when they’ve got identical things she terrorises her sister for what she’s got as well. I think logic has just vanished.

Thanks @TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis . She does get quite a lot of one to one as DD1 is at school in the week normally. She’s easier alone (they both are) but ultimately I guess I’m aware in just over a year that one to one will vanish forever and I do have to parent them both and I really hope it improves as it’s awful just now.

Is she at home with you all day while DD1 is at a school or does she got to nursery? If the latter , how is her behaviour there? How does she behave with dad/ grandparents? What does she actually like doing?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a bigger picture.

It doesnt matter that she doesnt listen, she is 3, she will learn
There is a strong sense that you try and give up
Dont, it can take a while for emotional maturity to start developing and she needs to have you consistently setting the example
We have all been there
Its a phase

Firm, calm but with consequences
She wont get milk if shes screaming
She will go home if she snatches
Hitting , firm No and shes removed

Of course she will melt down
You are the rock she needs to stay calm and setting the example, children need this to develop their ability to deal with their emotions

Ugh what a shitty little response.

I think you mean first post always nails it.

I’m going through similar OP with DS who is 3 and his sister who is 6. Some days he’s very sweet and we have a lovely time but there are MANY where he hits, fights, screams, shouts and tantrums over doing anything that isn’t exactly what he wants. He’s so energetic and persistent with it that distraction and all the usual techniques literally do not work. Sending my sympathies and moral support!

My oldest was similar - I had to put up with being undignified in public. In fact my now best friend said the first time she saw me removing my howling fighting son from the room with a fireman’s lift she thought I was doing a good job! It was easier for me because he was the oldest and the baby didn’t mind being taken home. Try not to go anywhere where it will really matter for a few weeks, and explain the plan to older dd before hand. In the house I would remove the older child AND myself to another room each time the trouble starts, just for a bit even if she follows you it gives a signal that that kind of behavior won’t be tolerated. Finally I would read both the How to talk books, I found them invaluable at this age.

Just echoing others... set super firm boundaries. It means that for a very short period in your DD's life, you just can't be lovely, gentle, sweet mum all the time. We all want to be that mum, but with a strong-willed child in the mix, you have to set those boundaries and help DD to regulate her behaviour.
I wonder if DH can support you by taking over care while you spend one-to-one with DD1/DD2, i.e. day out with DD1 while DD2 stays home with dad and vice versa, or just quiet time in the kitchen with DD1 talking/chatting/being together while DD2 is engaged with dad in another room and again, vice versa.

Actions have consequences. To give her that vital lesson now is to help her grow. She's only young, I totally understand how difficult it is to be firm with our little ones. But strong-willed children need a lot more boundary setting, a lot more firm NOs, and lines drawn in the sand. It's like Parenting Plus with a strong-willed child. And boundary setting is something that we, as humans, like and need. We don't do well with watery, fluid boundaries in life.
As mentioned above by another poster, most primary schools offer parenting workshops which I highly recommend! Look on your council's website/check your local library-community hub.
And remember that we're all just learning as we go. This will pass and your little one will absolutely become the best version of herself. She's only using the tools in the toolbox she came into this world with. It's all hammer and tongs with some kids. I've been there, OP, and I really do understand. It gets better.💐

Do you discipline her?

It’s hard, I really struggled when one of my children was this age but they have to know you’re in control. If she plays up when you’re out you take her out if you have to leave then make it up to your other daughter in some way. You need to make this better for your other daughter. Biting is awful, if she ever does this that or hurts your daughter it needs to be a time out. A favourite toy being put away, tablet going away etc and explain its because of your behaviour. You said you aren’t sure she understands consequences, she should do at this age, if she doesn’t I’d seek advice from the health visitor.

Have a read of The Explosive Child. Gentle parenting is absolutely the way to go here. People on this thread are confusing it with permissive parenting. There are also a lot of useful articles on this website https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/read/angry-child-triggers-parent-control-self

Honestly it's good you posted - you need to get on top of this now.
It will have long term effects on whole family if you dont.

You attitude here is so defeatist... oh I cant stop her!
Of course you can.

Most obviously prevention is better than cure....You KNOW when shes likely to kick off.and snatch... Stop her taking things preemptively.
If she has it dont make a big announcement or start a big chat, just go in fast or from behind and pull sharply to remove it ie fast relaxes and a quick grab.
Honestly if she is injured its natural consequences and id be fine.
Sorry you got hurt I had to remove it because ots not yours / it need stop go back to Jessica....

obvs you can set up a proper system in the house and have an area where she can be contained and have time outs.
If simply requires thought effort and perhaps a few £££ for a stair gate

Edit: I have strong willed / defiant children
It wasnt particularly pleasant or easy to set the boundaries but now it's there life is relatively easy / civilised with my 4 yo. My.2 yo is still a work in progress

Honestly. It's better to look undignified than pathetic. I've seen mums who are obviously scared of their own kids so won't discipline them. I do honestly judge them. I've seen mums fighting a tantrum for half an hour and hold the boundary. I'm damn impressed. She is a child, you are an adult. You are stronger, you are smarter, there is no reason for a 3 year old to beat you at anything.

I bet you the mum's at playgroup can't stand you and your kid. So what they let your kid have things. Doesn't mean you should. You take it off her. And you make her sit down until she can calmly apologise. I've strapped my 3 year old into a highchair because he wouldn't stay sat. You can get harnesses that kids can't break out of.

Take a buggy she can't get out of. Tell her, if you snatch anything off anyone you will sit here while your big sister plays. She stays there until she's calm and apologises. When she does. You take it off her. Pick her up, however ridiculous it looks. And you put her in the pushchair and ignore her until she's calm. For the time being focus on going places her tantrum won't affect people as much. Outside places, places your eldest can play safely while you're stood at the door with her screaming on the outside.

And if it's so bad you think the people around are suffering her tantrum too much, you leave. You apologise to eldest, buy her a treat on the way home. She is going to suffer more growing up with a sister behaving like that, than she will suffering a couple of trips cut short.

She behaves like this because it works and you let her.

Some three year olds are incredibly strong willed! The term “threenager” was coined for a reason.

Deep breath, YOU are in charge. You can do this!

Your discipline must always be calm - even if you raise your voice. Stay in control. They can sense if you break!

Strong eye contact, down on her level.

If you are somewhere with both girls, then dd sits out for 1 minute for a minor misbehaviour, 3 minutes for a worse misbehaviour.

Go on Vinted and buy some Orchard games for practising turn taking.

Also play games at home where you take turns like throwing a bean bag to land in a target.

Play teddy bear’s picnic - serve ALL the food to first teddy and sit him on the best cushion, and make sure the other teddy has an empty plate or just a little bit. Explain the other teddy is teddy is sad, make the teddy fall over and cry. Then ask dd how can we make teddy feel better, why is teddy sad, and hopefully she will realise teddy should share the food. If she doesn’t realise the problem, you can pretend to ask first teddy and teddy can whisper the answer in your ear. Acting out difficult situations in play makes it easier for your dd to understand how someone else might be feeling and that making someone sad isn’t nice. She’s young but she can start to learn!

Get her to serve dinner - one spoon for me, one for sis, one for mummy. Sharing things out is a good way to practice fairness.

Someone gave me a tip once for small kids, that when they throw a tantrum you say to them “you’ve had your turn being angry, now it’s my turn!” And then you do lots of fake crying and wailing and stamping your foot. Then you stop and say “ok I’ve had my turn now it’s your turn again.” And almost every time, my dc didn’t have a second turn. They are so intrigued watching you that they often giggle and forget the andry feelings.

Try this thread - lots of us with difficult toddlers on there having a shame and guilt free moan.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5533883-to-be-absolutely-depressed-by-parenting?latest=1

I agree with other posters advising you to leave the venue the minute the unwanted behaviour happens. Be consistent and it will work. Keep doing it from now until September. It may not always be convenient for DD1, but she will benefit in the end.
Meanwhile lots of cuddles and fun and I love yous whenever you have a minute.

What an unpleasant post. Unfortunately that’s just really put me off posting any further. Sorry.

I was feeling low this morning. She has been a lot more challenging than usual as she has an ear infection but it isn’t unusual for two and three year olds to shout nine and get possessive over toys. Why would anyone not be able to stand us for that? The main issue is with slightly older kids who just give her what she’s whingeing for which I understand but it’s reinforcing that message.

She attends nursery for two days a week and is fine there, quite withdrawn if anything.

Why is that a shitty response, this is exactly what parenting courses are for! To support parents who are struggling.

Yes, I learned an acronym at work for introducing presentations which is very applicable to toddlers - be Brisk, Optimistic, Purposeful.

My husband sometimes falls down on this and goes for Waffling, Pessimistic and Vague.

If you keep your words simple and your actions consistent, then they learn. Not magically - it takes several goes and sometimes a lot of fuss. You can't be consistent some of the time. Drives me batty that my husband has "chill mornings" and has our son in PJs gone 9, then wonders why he will just follow the routine with me.

But within the first hour of the day my son can expect exactly the same thing from me. Breakfast, hair and teeth brushed, dressed, some play, no TV.

People won’t judge your undignified fight to wrestle a toy from a 3yo.

We’ve all been there 🤣

However, your 3yo has learned to do this because mummy is too scared to challenge her.

The means justifies the end in her young eyes.

and it’ll get worse before it gets better because she’ll up the ante to see if you mean it.

But you HAVE to mean it. You you HAVE to have the fight now.

It’ll be easier than when she’s 13 and putting herself at risk.

I don't think it's unpleasant. She was not mean to you.

If you think that's unpleasant then maybe this is why the situation is what it is.

I'm not trying to kick you while you are down, I'm sorry you feel bad :(

But this is correct. You are the parent and your toddler is running rings around you. And her screaming mean she probably has learned it works after a bit. Being passive doesn't help.

You've had some good advice on here so don't bow out now. See this as the change going forward. I don't think a parenting course is a bad idea. Look on google for youtube videos too. Any self help is good. Look on how to be more assertive with your toddler and in life in general. It's not easy to be like that, especially if it's not really your personality. But if you nip this in the bud now, it will so much better in the long run. You posted for a reason

This is a hard phase for you.

At nearly 3 she is just old enough for withdrawal of something she likes, but it needs to follow fairly immediately. "You must give that back to DD1 or ....."

This behaviour also needs to trigger attention given to DD1.

DD2 is trying to communicate something to you .... basically a need for attention. She needs not to receive that reward at that moment ... she needs to relieve this when she does something right, however small.

Do you have a partner at home? Separating the children and giving them 1:1 can help.

I am with you ... it's so hard!