To think that not always, but quite often, it is the parents...

[ImImmortalNowBabyDoll]

I was a teacher for a few years and in the years I taught I saw behaviour getting MUCH worse and parents getting less and less inclined to support teachers.

I saw a facebook post today saying that it's unreasonable to blame parents for children's behaviour in school and it then went on to talk about how hard it is for ND kids to stay regulated at school and it's the fault of "the system" that they can't cope.

There's a family I know with 2 boys who are both constantly in trouble in school. The classroom frequently has to be evacuated because of the younger one's violent outbursts. He's about 8.

I saw him today in the library, running around, ignoring the librarian, and swearing profusely the whole time. They're both always out unsupervised, roaming the streets, and when I see him with his Mum, she speaks to him with the same language he uses for everyone else. Social services had to get involved because she kept smacking them, so now she swears and shouts at them and they hit her, and she asks what she's supposed to do now she's not allowed to hit them back.

I don't know if they are ND, but the problem is that they're barely being parented and when they are, they example being set is dreadful.

Oh there are a lot of people who think you can't be racist to a white person, it suits their narrative.

I don't think some people realise just how expensive it can be.

Neurodiversity is a you problem, not an excuse to make life hard for everyone else. Should there be understanding and appropriate accomodations? Sure. Should there be carte blanche for the behaviour you described? Heck no.

My child qualified for DLA. Will help fix what he has broken!

I'm so pleased for you! It's such a relief when you open the letter and realise it is good news (or get a surprise in your bank account before the letter even arrives).

Sorry - learning to read, write and do maths is the very purpose of school! Of course that is given more time than PSHE. And testing is not pointless. Parents are so precious about how “stressful” children find SATs but in my experience schools do absolutely everything to make them as relaxed as possible, with special breakfasts, playtime afterwards, lots of praise and support. Children need to get used to being tested and for tests not to be a big deal as this happens a lot at secondary school. They are 11, not five.

Swimming being on the curriculum at all is another example of something that should be the parents’ job but is falling upon schools. No child is going to learn to swim well from the school swimming lessons alone (in our school, one two week block in each year of KS2). Parents should be taking their children swimming or organising lessons and school lessons should be a nice addition to that.

Swimming lessons can be expensive so not available to all which is a reason why it's nice some children at least get to experience it at school.

Absolutely! There was another post on here asking if young children can sit sensibly and eat, and evidently I’m the ‘smug wanker’ because I responded yes they can! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Just for a moment please step into the shoes of a child - and their family - who is neurodiverse/struggles with reading, writing and maths at an expected level despite working hard every day. SATs aren't just completed at age 11, the revision, practise papers are endless. Remember the times table check and phonics check. Yes, school staff work hard to make the testing feel relaxed, ultimately it is not relaxed or fun. SATs put too much pressure on young children and their families - too much pressure on schools and staff too. By the time these young people get to secondary many of them are disillusioned/stressed with education - unsurprisingly. For those young people that remain in education, many of this group also find that school is too much.
Reading, writing and maths are important - if they are taught when a child is ready and at a pace that isn't overwhelming. Reading, writing and maths are as important as art, physical activity and all the other subjects which make learning an exciting world to be in.

The point of swimming (as part of water safety education) is to try and prevent children from drowning. IMO it is more than a 'nice to have' and it should be done properly and that means a state solution. But of course there isn't the resource; whether money, qualified teachers or locations.

So schools have to bodge it which is not fair on anyone.

I had swimming lessons in year five and six and they were pretty comprehensive and went on for quite a few weeks, probably the whole Summer term each YG on alternate weeks this was in the mid 90's though.

But if you can’t read, you can’t access many of the other subjects that make life rich and interesting. That is why there is such a focus on reading and maths in the early years - because these are the vital building blocks that underpin the rest of the years of education.

In Educating Yorkshire there was a boy in Y7 who was being given reading support because he had a reading age of five. They showed the teacher going through set 3 phonic sounds with him (“snail”) that my kids did halfway through reception. He was actually a sweet boy but unsurprisingly he mucked around in all the other lessons because he couldn’t understand or engage properly as he couldn’t read.

I completely agree that we should be giving children as broad and varied a curriculum as possible but it is so vital that everyone learns to read and read well. And the phonics and timetables checks are such minor things - my kids barely noticed they were doing them, because the school handled it all really sensibly.

Agreed, in the 90s I too had two years of weekly lessons at a state primary. However I don’t remember anyone who was completely unable to swim by that stage, whereas in my children’s school there are on average five kids in every class of 30 who have never been swimming. They are not even going to get to the stage of being safe in water from the lessons they have at school. I appreciate external lessons can be expensive but in our area there are subsidised / free lessons for those on low incomes and yet still we have these eight year olds who cannot swim at all.

So while those are extreme examples unsupported kids with autism Nd ADHD are more likely to lash out etc. my son is on the pathway for diagnosis, his behaviour in school is beautiful, school do all they can to support him. Soft start in he morning, supportive SEN teacher who is available for any issues that come up etc. his best friend from when they were in nursery and another little boy from nursery are both autistic and started out in a different school, 1 self harmed and was largely mute at school, the other was hitting and eloping from class. Their mum's were losing their minds. They moved to my son's (mainstream) school and now are in class every day. Doing the work, making progress, no behaviour concerns.

The environment makes a huge difference to these children.

Frankly if I can ensure my child doesn't feel suicidal by 14 I'll consider that a job well done, what you seem not to realise is that improved mental health in adulthood is a huge factor in a more neurodivergent friendly approach
Imagine if you'd had a diagnosis, avoided trauma, youd potentially have had a happier and ultimately more productive life.

It's clear from our school that even when students are punished . There are parents who go in and object to the punishment.
I've seen comments on my kids where kids say my mom/dad won't care or lately my dad will kick the shit out of her ( teacher). On another thread even on here today , the mom's first reaction was to go in all guns blazing when her child walked out of class without permission. Can you imagine if every child did that . It would
be utter chaos .

I'm not sure what, about the comment, implied I thought it was ok that I was undiagnosed and unsupported. Maybe you should read it again.

So many reasons.

Parents who think it's too much like hard work to discipline their kids.

Too much screen time

Not enough sleep

But: it's not all on the parents. Schools seem to pick on really silly things to discipline the kids for like overly strict school uniforms. Pick your battles. As an example, our PE uniform was navy shorts. Mine had a white stripe down the side that I could still wear from primary school. Nowadays you'd be in isolation - my school didn't say anything at all.

And societally I think we are trying to push too many different shaped kids into the same shape hole and surprisingly enough they rebel. Schools were strict and you didn't mess around, but they weren't as rigid as they are now. Again, we had two PE lessons a week in my school which gave some time to let off steam - my son only had one at the same stage. I think there needs to be strict rules on the things that matter with firm boundaries and consequences but don't waste time on the things that really aren't important.

It's about how to get to lessons as well even if they are free such as are they on a good bus route, can the family afford to get there etc.

In my area, there are no free lessons. The cheapest council run lessons are £25 per month and they are so rubbish that 99% of families pull their child out as they make little to no progress which is fine if you can afford the more expensive lessons but if not, you are either stuck paying £25 per month if you can afford that for poor lessons or simply deciding it isn't worth the cost and obviously children don't end up learning how to swim either way.

My son did as well. He had books and colouring to keep him occupied until the food came.

The correlation between crap parents and crap kids is strong. However in an era when many prefer to take no personal responsibility for anything, we have to pretend that isn’t the case which really doesn’t help anyone.

Also whether they are offered at a time the parent can get there and are they accessible to sign up for or, as was the case in my own area, are they so over subscribed it can be difficult to get a place.

The correlation between poverty and poor behaviour is stronger. (Which is why so many parents try to avoid schools that serve housing where there is a lot of socioeconomic deprivation).

Poverty puts stress on families that make good parenting harder and on children that make poor behaviour more likely. Socio-economic deprivation is the biggest predictor of poor behaviour that research has found to date.

Yep. Absolutely this too.

We are in London so those on low incomes get free bus travel, and there are several public pools offering lessons within walking distance of our school. Or, if the lessons are impossible, parents can take the children swimming themselves.